What do you think these should've been graded? [gelöst]

Time for a game of guess the grade
Just saw these two English crowns that both sold in a recent Heritage auction. Neither are mine
Same date, same company (NGC). Guess the grades (no cheating)

G4, VG10

I would give them both G. The reverse of the bottom one is a VG probably, but would still give it just G based on the obverse.

In the North American grading system, I would say the top one is VG-10 and bottom one is VG-8.

I think every guess thus far is too low.

Verweis : "tdziemia"​I think every guess thus far is too low.

​You're probably right, some kid at NGC probably gave them crazy high grades, (or at least one of them--that is probably the point of the OP).

If you ever have the chance to talk to someone who has worked in the grading trenches at NGC, do not pass up the chance to talk to them--you'll begin to understand some of the insanely high grades seen on some slabs.

Top one VG, Bottom one F. And if I'm optimistic, top one F-, bottom one VF-.

I'm often surprised by the dramatic overgrading (in my opinion) of officially graded coins. Many MS graded coins are just 'ordinary VF' in my view. I expect the same in this case. I'm curious.

After I made my comment I took a look. I would have guessed in the high Fine range.

I mostly collect 15th - 17th century raw coins, and get lots of amusement at grades assigned by the TPGs.

Verweis : "gyoschak"​If you ever have the chance to talk to someone who has worked in the grading trenches at NGC, do not pass up the chance to talk to them--you'll begin to understand some of the insanely high grades seen on some slabs.

​Since most of us will likely never get a chance to talk to one of those people, could you give a brief explanation of what you've understood about the high grades from talking to them yourself?

Both are Very Well Used Top one VG/F at best. Bottom one G/VG .

As a newbie and someone who agonises over whether I am being too harsh or too generous as i catalogue my own, I find threads like this so informative.  !

Top VG-8, bottom VG-10. Both have been cleaned.

Verweis : "harryg"​Top VG-8, bottom VG-10.

​Probably just about what I would've given them too.

Verweis : "gyoschak"You're probably right, some kid at NGC probably gave them crazy high grades, (or at least one of them--that is probably the point of the OP).

​Exactly my point here.


The general consensus seems to be that these coins are about G-F and the bottom is slightly nicer. The bottom one was graded a VG8 which is reasonable in my opinion.



We seem to agree that the second is the nicer of the two, but not only did NGC grade the first one higher, they graded it four entire grades higher.

The VG8 example ended up selling for $280 (too high in my opinion) and the lot next to it, the VF20, ended up selling for $500

Wow!

I agree with VG8 (which is what I gave it), but VF20?? Really?? Compare the two coins and you see that, yes, the "VF" one is a little better, but barely.

Yet, for a VG10 (IMO), it is very attractive, with a nice toning, and almost problem free except for a small rim bump.

On Tony Clayton's site, he has the 1666 crown at £300 in F (UK system, which would probably be F+ in the US grading system). I suppose a VG10 in US dollars would be worth about US $200 or a little more?

I suppose US grading companies are better at grading US than foreign coins.

I would have taken the top coin (original post) over the bottom on eye appeal till the cows come home.

Maybe the lower coin had stronger rims and a sharper reverse, but to me a well circulated coin of this age with such uniform tone suggests an old cleaning (@harryg's point). And the portrait is far less attractive in my opinion.

All collectors are different ... and .... vive la difference!