I have an NGC slabbed 2021 Type 2 ASE without mint mark. The NGC First day of issue label does not say it is an" emergency issue." If it is not the emergency issue how does it vary from the Emergency issue? Coin Book does not show a 2021 Type 2 ASE without mint mark except the Emergency issue however Numista shows a few listings for a 2021 Type 2 with no mint mark listed. I just noticed there is a 2021 no mint mark Bullion. So I guess if NGC label iddn't state that it was the Emergency issue it must be the Bullion issue. Your comments are appreciated.
They do not have to state that it is the emergency issue because it is implied but you have to pay attention. For marketing purposes, NGC advertises “first day Issue” to imply something special and additional value. The U.S. mint agrees to set aside the first coins minted to NGC because they are a huge buyer of coins from the mint. Of course, this squeezes the regular collector who would simply like to own an UNC example without the slab. Very controversial for collectors like me who purchase directly from the mint. The real difference here is the Coin with the S mintmark is a proof or reverse proof. The coin you have without the mintmark is simply a coin minted in San Francisco in UNC condition. “First Issue” UNC but not as exclusive and valuable as the Proof or Reverse Proof.
Edit. You edited your comment while I was responding. They are all “bullion coins”. Also, don't confuse BU (brilliant uncirculated) with Bullion.
So you are saying that this Type 2 is an S without a mint mark and is the Emergency issue listed? Numista has two 2021 with no mint mark listed. If you don't know are uncertain I may see if I can get an answer from NGC.
Absolutely, 100% certain. The only 2 coins with the S mintmark is the Proof and Reverse proof. Note that the mintages for those are stated. The Emergency issue without the mintmark does not have the final mintage total because the official total minted has not been released to the public as of yet. The 3500 BU coins were made for a set that includes a 2 Oz. proof bar. I promise you, this confusion is intentional to maximize profits and sales for both the U.S. Mint and large buyers who profit by their marketing departments and descriptions of the products they sell. Emergency production, first release, etc. Remember, you claimed it to be the S mint with no mintmark. Why did you state that in your inquiry? Does the slab state S? Was that an assumption? What did you base the question on in the first place? I only answered the question directly as it was asked. There is always the possibility that you have a first release Philadelphia coin. That information should have been supplied when the coin was purchased or on the slab itself.
I got my question answered. There is no physical difference in the S & P except where they were made. The only way one gets the Emergency Issue designation is if, I guess NGC gets a hoard of coins from the San Francisco mint that are designated as Emergency Issue. These coins are then labeled by NGC or PCGS as Emergency issue. If it is not slabbed and Labeled Emergency issue you could not tell the difference. My coin is not labeled P or S it just has no mint mark. It just states MS-69 on the !st day of issue label. It is ridiculous that the two coins that are otherwise identical are valued more if the label indicates Emergency issue.
They do not have to state that it is the emergency issue because it is implied but you have to pay attention. For marketing purposes, NGC advertises “first day Issue” to imply something special and additional value. The U.S. mint agrees to set aside the first coins minted to NGC because they are a huge buyer of coins from the mint. Of course, this squeezes the regular collector who would simply like to own an UNC example without the slab. Very controversial for collectors like me who purchase directly from the mint. The real difference here is the Coin with the S mintmark is a proof or reverse proof. The coin you have without the mintmark is simply a coin minted in San Francisco in UNC condition. “First Issue” UNC but not as exclusive and valuable as the Proof or Reverse Proof.
Edit. You edited your comment while I was responding. They are all “bullion coins”. Also, don't confuse BU (brilliant uncirculated) with Bullion.
This is completely WRONG, the Mint doesn't set aside coins for anyone. They do limit direct sales of bullion coins to purchasers who meet their requirements based on volume. The list includes 12 companies, but NGC is not one of them, because NGC does not purchase coins, they just grade them.
This is completely WRONG, the Mint doesn't set aside coins for anyone. They do limit direct sales of bullion coins to purchasers who meet their requirements based on volume. The list includes 12 companies, but NGC is not one of them, because NGC does not purchase coins, they just grade them.
No sorry, you are absolutely and completely WRONG! They absolutely have and do set aside huge numbers of coins for large purchasers long before small purchasers like me and the general public have an opportunity to get them. Then we are forced to purchase them from third parties for a large markup. I am on their perpetual waiting list because many of these “special” coins are snapped up by the bulk for profit purchasers long before regular folks even get an opportunity to get one. The new Director of the U.S. Mint has apologized to collectors like me for doing so in the past and are in the process in making the market for them more equitable. Do you seriously think NGC grades these for the mint for nothing and then sends them back to the mint for sale? No, they are sent directly to large purchasers who sell them from there. Another cog in the profit chain. “First release” is simply a marketing ploy because the large players get a piece of the profits from them at the expense of the collector like me. Again, profit driven by a third party, NGC in this case, and the price everybody else has to pay for the product that was supposed to be intended for collectors directly from the mint.. You obviously never pre registered and pre purchased well in advance of official release date only to find out what was left have been “sold out” BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN Officially RELEASED to the public. I suggest you read some articles, current and historic, and some of the comments from long time collectors like me who are pre registered with the U.S. Mint for many bullion coins that we simply could not get. Also read some articles including the apologies from the Mint directors past and present and their promise to correct that and level the playing field. You will have to search for them yourself. This is a great site to learn the FACTS.
2) Bullion coins are sold only to qualified buyers (see list).
Additionally:
3) If you missed-out on non-bullion coins sold by the Mint to the public, it's because people with subscriptions or people using bots beat you to them. (You are conflating bullion coin sales with collector coin sales, which is WRONG.)
News flash: Qualified Bulk Buyers buy them up “First”, send them off to NGC for slabbing with the sticker “First Release”, returned to the same bulk buyer and then they sell them aftermarket for triple what you should be able to get the same coin for without the marketing, slab and hoopla attachments directly from the mint. This is exactly why the mint now has apologized to the general public and individual collectors like me and tried to accommodate us mere collectors and offered us the option to sign up as preregistered for a particular release to secure at least 1 example directly from the mint. They instituted this policy because of the bots and other methods the bulk buyers used and abused to place orders and gobble them all up. It amounted to ticket scalping at the stadium with the influence these bulk purchasers were having on some new mint releases. At least now the mint is attempting to level the playing field. This is why I detest profiteers at collectors expense. They ruin what otherwise is a enjoyable hobby.
3) If you missed-out on non-bullion coins sold by the Mint to the public, it's because people with subscriptions or people using bots beat you to them. (You are conflating bullion coin sales with collector coin sales, which is WRONG.)
Interesting. Please do not accuse me of being the one confused here. I never mentioned non bullion coins and the subject matter of this thread is in fact a “First Issue” of a BULLION coin from the mint, purchased first, repackaged, and then sold by a third party and not the mint.
During most years the US Mint produces three types of Silver Eagles, here are examples of the ones produced in 2007.
The first coin is a proof, which was produced at the West Point branch of the Mint (note the W mint-mark on the reverse). It was made from a specially produced .999 silver planchet with specially produced dies (thus it has mirror fields and frosted devices). The Mint sells these directly to collectors, and they refer to these generically as “collector” coins.
The second coin is burnished coin, which was produced at the West Point branch of the Mint (again note the W mint-mark on the reverse). It was made from a specially produced .999 silver planchet (amazingly the term burnished means highly polished), and a not so special i.e standard die. Again, the Mint sells these directly to collectors, and they refer to these generically as “collector” coins.
The last one is a bullion coin, which was produced at an unidentified branch of the Mint. In most cases, US coinage without a mint-mark, is assumed to have been produced at the main Philadelphia branch, but this isn't always true. Silver eagle bullion coins without mint-marks, have also been produced at both the West Point and San Francisco branches. They use standard coin .999 silver planchets and standard coin dies. However, in this case the coin to a large distributor and it was not sold directly to a collector.
Thus, if you have an NGC graded/slabbed 2021 Type 2 Silver Eagle with no mint-mark, it was produced as a bullion coin. Meaning it was sold to a large distributor, who either submiited it to NGC or sold it to a smaller distributor, who then submitted it to NGC. Additionally, it is/was NOT an “emergency” issue.
Wrong again. Because of the Covid Pandemic, the West point mint could not produce enough so the San Francisco mint was tasked with making up the difference on an emergency basis. Thus “emergency issue". Note their claim of “Special Status” in their ability to acquire them “First” and “Emergency Production”. Can you not see how the U.S. mint has been complicit in these back door deals and why these issues and are so difficult to define? The OP is still confused as to what he has for very good reason.
I seemed to have hit a nerve with my initial question. I enjoy all the opinions.
You asked a question and I tried to answer. The answers are not easy. Others only chime in after the fact with very strong opinions on subjects they know next to nothing about. Now the other poster is trying to do his homework on this thread. Here it is October 2022 and we still have no official mintages for most of the 2021 Type 1 let alone for the 2021 type 2? Why do you think that is?
To call this an emergency production is just plan wrong. The San Francisco Mint has been producing bullion silver eagles for a long time. Here's an example from 2012.
From the Mint website:
Numismatic coins (Proof and Uncirculated finishes) are minted in Philadelphia (P), Denver (D), San Francisco (SF), and West Point (WP).
Bullion coins (Platinum, Gold, and Silver) have recently been minted at all facilities except Denver. Only numismatic products may be purchased directly from the US Mint.
Circulating-quality coins (as obtained in banks and retail establishments) are produced at Philadelphia and Denver facilities.
To call this an emergency production is just plan wrong. The San Francisco Mint has been producing bullion silver eagles for a long time. Here's an example from 2012.
Below is a quote from usacoinbook.com.
Due to strong demand for bullion Silver Eagles - the US Mint began minting these in San Francisco in 2011 to help supplement production and keep up with demand. People knew about them being minted in San Francisco because the Mint used to provide this information on the packaging. However in 2014 - they removed this information from their packaging. Because bullion silver eagles never have mint marks struck on their coins - it was impossible to determine which mint was producing the coins.
NGC began to notice small differences in the quality of the coins - particularly the West Point coins being of higher quality. West Point silver eagle coins are placed into tubes by robots - while Philadelphia and San Francisco coins are put in tubes manually. NGC also noticed differences in the serial number codes on the 500-coin "monster boxes" that silver eagles are distributed in. Due to a Freedom of Information Act request - the Mint released Mint identification information based on these serial numbers:
I couldn't find my book on “emergency money” but these coins do not meet the criteria. Additionally, it wouldn't be the first time NGC put something misleading on a slab:
In the December issue of our newsletter, we reported that separate class-action lawsuits had been filed in Florida against two of the leading third party coin grading and authentication companies concerning their designations of certain coins as “First Strikes.” The suits allege the companies are violating unfair trade practices laws of their home states. One of the companies, Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), has since announced that it will no longer label modern bullion coins, such as gold and silver American Eagles, as first strikes. It will instead offer an “Early Release” designation.
An advisory issued by the United States Mint during 2006 noted that approximately 50% of the projected sales numbers for its uncirculated bullion coins are struck before shipments begin and that the order in which the coins are packed or shipped is not an indication of the order in which they were struck.
NGC’s new designation is more consistent with what’s actually known about the striking and release of modern bullion coins. It remains to be seen whether coins designated “Early Release” as well as coins previously labeled “First Strike” will command any significant premium in the marketplace. The willingness of some buyers to pay more for “first strike” coins has been at least partially based on the assumption that they were struck early in the life of coin dies, before stress, wear and metal fatigue began to affect the dies in ways that may be visible on struck coins. We see no reason why coin prices should in any way be based on when they left the Mint."
