2 Cents 1865. DDO or overdate? [gelöst]

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Sulik
Mitglied seit: 5 Okt. 2018
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Gesendet: 30 Sept. 2021, 07:19 #
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2 Cents 1865. DDO or overdate?


harryg
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Gesendet: 30 Sept. 2021, 11:30 #
Bearbeitet: 30 Sept. 2021, 11:42
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In every other respect your coin looks normal. This is an example of a repunched date which is a not so uncommon minor variety. Although not on the Numista page, yours happens to have the major "fancy" 5 and not the plain 5 variety. On the Numista page this is described as "bent" 5 or "normal" 5. Your coin is a very nice example of an 1865 2 cent piece.
Mr. Midnight Katalog-Kurator
Mitglied seit: 10 März 2017
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Gesendet: 1 Okt. 2021, 01:17 #
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fabulous interesting coin. EF details.
It also has hand inscription(graffiti) "AK" in three places, and a prominent die crack at 7oclock.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
Beiträge: 15834
Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 11:04 #
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I'll make the CR. Should I ask for 2 year lines?
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 13:12 #
Bearbeitet: 3 Okt. 2021, 13:21
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I agree Ole. Perhaps the verbiage too. Red Book, PCGS, NGC, and others use the term Fancy 5 instead of "bent"5. The other 5 is described as "plain" instead of normal. Use the same terminology as the majority of references for this variety. I also think 2 year lines for this date is appropriate with the correct terms on the year lines.
Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 13:28 #
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Verweis : "harryg"​I agree Ole. Perhaps the verbiage too. Red Book, PCGS, NGC, and others use the term Fancy 5 instead of "bent"5. The other 5 is described as "plain" instead of normal. Use the same terminology as the majority of references for this variety. I also think 2 year lines for this date is appropriate with the correct terms on the year lines.
​The red book uses plain and curved.
PCGS plain and fancy
KM plain and fancy
numista doesn't matter, since it's taken from KM!

So I use plain and fancy.
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 14:11 #
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My Red Book uses Plain and Fancy. Now about the 1864 large and small motto....................

Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 14:29 #
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I'll have a look into that; PCGS seem to have the images as well. Will be back, when I have worked a bit on it``-
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 14:47 #
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Verweis : "Sjoelund"​I'll have a look into that; PCGS seem to have the images as well. Will be back, when I have worked a bit on it``-
​You are a good man Ole.
Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 14:59 #
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Hi,

here it is, the % calculated by price differences 1:15



It's so fast, when I don't have much to do with the images:P
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 15:11 #
Bearbeitet: 3 Okt. 2021, 15:15
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Just have the 2 confused. The Fancy and plain 5's pertain only to the 1865. The large and small motto pertain only to the 1864.
Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 15:26 #
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Verweis : "harryg"​Just have the 2 confused. The Fancy and plain 5's pertain only to the 1865. The large and small motto pertain only to the 1864.
​Modern times on the production line.....



better now?
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
Beiträge: 15834
Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 15:29 #
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Do we ask for two separate year lines, knowing it's not so easy to see the difference, if you don't have both. The chance of that is tremendous small! I would stay with ONE line and just make a reference to the "Two different motto sizes; see comments section"
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 15:47 #
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Verweis : "Sjoelund"​Do we ask for two separate year lines, knowing it's not so easy to see the difference, if you don't have both. The chance of that is tremendous small! I would stay with ONE line and just make a reference to the "Two different motto sizes; see comments section"
​Agreed. But you are the better judge as to how these changes should be done in ways that are acceptable to the Numista gods. I have little experience at doing so and am trying to learn so that I can start editing and contributing myself.
rsirian1
Mitglied seit: 20 Nov. 2020
Beiträge: 12954
Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 15:57 #
Bearbeitet: 3 Okt. 2021, 16:02
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It's already been decided for the 1864 year line: "large motto; mintage includes small motto", "large motto; Proof" and "small motto".

harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 16:07 #
Bearbeitet: 3 Okt. 2021, 16:10
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Verweis : "rsirian1"​It's already been decided for the 1864 year line: "large motto; mintage includes small motto", "large motto; Proof" and "small motto".
​
​
​This is a work in progress and we are working out what changes are warranted. The page does not show the photo of the difference between the 1864 large and small motto. Frequency is not written in stone either.
rsirian1
Mitglied seit: 20 Nov. 2020
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 16:19 #
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Verweis : "harryg"​
Verweis : "rsirian1"​It's already been decided for the 1864 year line: "large motto; mintage includes small motto", "large motto; Proof" and "small motto".
​​
​​
​​This is a work in progress and we are working out what changes are warranted. The page does not show the photo of the difference between the 1864 large and small motto. Frequency is not written in stone either.
​Understand. Just pointing out that the page already contains multiple year lines for 1864 and combining the small motto and large motto lines into one seems to be a step backwards. I think Ole's new powerpoint is a perfect addition to the page. I'm not concerned about the frequencies; they're actually very close to the percentages on the powerpoint.
harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 16:24 #
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Just seems it it better to do these things privately rather than publicly sometimes because ultimately the referees make the decisions anyway. These threads seem to go on forever once in the public forum.
Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 16:27 #
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Verweis : "rsirian1"​It's already been decided for the 1864 year line: "large motto; mintage includes small motto", "large motto; Proof" and "small motto".
​
​
​So that makes it so much easier:D
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
harryg
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Gesendet: 3 Okt. 2021, 18:47 #
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Meantime, the OP once again has evaporated.
Essor Prof Katalog-Kurator
Mitglied seit: 13 Apr. 2015
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Gesendet: 4 Okt. 2021, 12:26 #
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Verweis : "Sjoelund"​Do we ask for two separate year lines, knowing it's not so easy to see the difference, if you don't have both. The chance of that is tremendous small! I would stay with ONE line and just make a reference to the "Two different motto sizes; see comments section"
​Varieties which are easy to distinguish deserve their own year lines. Here the difference is easy to see if you know where to look for, just always go for the easiest way to distinguish them. In this case, look at the "G" and the "S". In the small motto the "G" has a rounded opening while on the large motto the the "G" is vertical. In the small motto the middle part of the "S" is almost horizontal, in the large motto the middle part of the "S" is diagonal.
These two differences can be easily seen even if you only have one of the two varieties in hand:

Sjoelund
Mitglied seit: 28 März 2012
Beiträge: 15834
Gesendet: 4 Okt. 2021, 13:41 #
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Is that OK?
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Essor Prof Katalog-Kurator
Mitglied seit: 13 Apr. 2015
Beiträge: 4746
Gesendet: 4 Okt. 2021, 16:08 #
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Ole, you're amazing. Great job.

So I assume you're agree the "G" and "S" are easy to distinguish even if you have only one variety at hand?
harryg
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Gesendet: 4 Okt. 2021, 17:01 #
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A myriad of easy ways to distinguish the two and this is but one way to do so. Overly complicated in my opinion and far too much needless information.. Could have used the WE dead center of the motto as well so eyes don't have to wander everywhere to distinguish the difference.
Status geändert zu Gelöst (Sulik, 18 Okt. 2021, 16:54)
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