Canadian Centennial 25 Cent km68a

The 1967 Canada circulating commemorative 25 cent was issued with .800 and .500 silver. There is a Numista page for the .800 silver content type km68 Here, but no page for the km68a the .500 silver type. On the km68 page the .500 silver km68a is noted as existing and the difference in weight is noted.

The Canada 1967 10 Cent was issued with ,800 and .500 silver content and Numista has separate pages for both types.

I am suggesting that page for Canada 25 cent km68a be added.

Thanks

Hi,

You can submit the creation request from your end through this link: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/contributions/nouveau.php?type=coin.

I am an old curmudgeon, very bad eyesight and short on patience. I have tried twice to add the page but the plethora of fields gets the best of me. Will someone please help and add the page for Canada 25 cent km68a for me, I:would be very appreciated.

Jerry

Do you have the .500 coin? Can you take pictures of it? Verify the weight (Krause says 5.83) and thickness? I will create the request.

Only worn coins can one tell the difference in the finesses for the 1967 10 & 25 Cents.

Aidan.

I have submitted a request to add the coin using the data from SCWC. I've also added a comment saying, "Coin pictures are those of the .800 silver coin KM# 68." If you do have pictures of the .500 coin I'll replace them after the page is published.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces312432.html

Do we have any evidence that the weight of this coin is different from the .800 version? It seems rather unlilely, since the 1968 .500 Ag 25 cents were all 90 grains (5.83 g) and only the nickel coins were 78 grains (5.05 g). Given that SCWC gives 5.83 g, can I suggest we stick with that for now?

Verweis : "ceh2019"​Do we have any evidence that the weight of this coin is different from the .800 version? It seems rather unlilely, since the 1968 .500 Ag 25 cents were all 90 grains (5.83 g) and only the nickel coins were 78 grains (5.05 g). Given that SCWC gives 5.83 g, can I suggest we stick with that for now?

​Totally my mistake. As I commented earlier, I had planned to use the Krause data (5.83g). Then I totally forgot when I actually made the page. I just submitted a CR to fix.

Hi all, hope all is well.

I recently purchased a km68a and it weighs 5.83g. I cannot confirm 100% sure that it is the km68a but the dealer that I obtained it from is very reliable.

Since I started this with the request for this page to be added I tried to do as much research as I could on the internet and found that Numista and Colnect were the only sites the has the weight at 5.05g. NGC and so Krause has the weight at 5.83g.

I had intended to submit scans of my coin for the page until I weighed it and it weighed 5.83g so if we settle that the weight is in fact 5.83g I will submit the scans.

Regards
Jerry

Page has been changed to 5.83g.

Now we have essentially the same coin in two pages unless you change some physical properties like diameter or thickness to differentiate the coins this new page is useless.

Verweis : "Idolenz"​Now we have essentially the same coin in two pages unless you change some physical properties like diameter or thickness to differentiate the coins this new page is useless.

​Hi Idolenz,

I do not agree as the pages represent 2 different coins/types. I now own both types and I collect by type so the different pages are of interest to me. To record my collection accurately I want both pages.

Km68 is 80% silver and km68a is 50% silver as such they have different monetary values as well as having different km numbers.

Regards that is just my opinion.

Jerry

I've requested the reference to different weights be removed from the .800 page. It's not very satifsfactory having no good way of distinguishing the two types but perhaps by having the two pages someone who knows a way will suggest it?
Whilst we're looking at the 25 cents, can we also look at the 10 cents? This is also listed as having two variants with different weights. The .800 Ag has 2.33 g, which matches the earlier coins and equals 36 grains. However, the .500 Ag is given as 2.18 g. This equals 33.6 grains (which seems unlikely as all other Canadian coins of that era had standard weights in whole numbers of grains) and is different from the 1968 .500 Ag coins which are 2.33 g again. Do we have a reliable source for this reduced weight? NGC gives 2.33 g. As is now the case for the 25 cents, the same picuture is used for both but without any indication as to which is shown.

Verweis : "Idolenz"​Now we have essentially the same coin in two pages unless you change some physical properties like diameter or thickness to differentiate the coins this new page is useless.

​I do not understand this argument. It implies that a new coin page can't be added unless it is easy to tell the difference between it and another coin. The fact that it is a different coin is all the reason needed to truthfully document it in the catalog. We've had discussions about telling the difference between seemingly identical coins where one is "brass" and one is "bronze" and some of the best minds here couldn't agree. Would you suggest that deleting one of the coin pages would be the best way to solve it?

Besides all that, there is a physical property difference that was documented. Composition relates directly to density which can be measured directly and used to distinguish which is which.

Has anyone tried the density measurement on the two different coins known to be 50% and 80% silver? If so, was the density difference noticeably measurable? I'm not convinced a 30% silver content difference would be measurable using the density test:
https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/determining-the-metal-of-a-coin-27.html#density

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic109244.html
I have borrowed this device from a dealer to verify silver coins in the past. It is very expensive, and also difficult to use, but it might be the only way to verify the silver content difference. (I have not used it to verify a small silver difference such as this.)
https://www.sigmametalytics.com/

https://youtu.be/jGxuWWGo8AY

Verweis : "gyoschak"​Has anyone tried the density measurement on the two different coins known to be 50% and 80% silver? If so, was the density difference noticeably measurable?

​Yes. I did. I was skeptical too. Then I tried it. It worked. Reported here: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic109244.html I think you were in on that post also.

Screenshot of results:

Verweis : "rsirian1"Reported here: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic109244.html I think you were in on that post also.
​
​Screenshot of results:
​
​

​Yes I was! That seems like a long time ago, I must be getting old. I'll have to try this myself with some coins to verify...

Me today:
https://youtu.be/jGxuWWGo8AY

Here's a link to the Act of Parliament concerning the .500 silver coins. As you can see, the 25 cents was 90 grains (5.83 g) and the 10 cents was 36 grains (2.33 g). Only the pure nickel coins were lighter. I'll put in a request to correct the weight for the .500 silver 10 cents.

Verweis : "rsirian1"I do not understand this argument. It implies that a new coin page can't be added unless it is easy to tell the difference between it and another coin. The fact that it is a different coin is all the reason needed to truthfully document it in the catalog.

It doesn't have to be easy but it has to be possible. As of right now every physical metric on both sides is the same ... which is physically impossible. Either the .500 is larger, thicker (or a combination) or lighter.


It's like:
I have a bunch of Is and ls please sort them in the categories I and I
IIIIIIIllllllIIIIIIIIllll
It can be done if you look hard enough or inspect the code but the problem is both categories are the same at the moment.

Good Day To Al

Here are the scans off my km68a that I submitted for the new page.



Regards

Jerry

Can someone help me out? I have a 1967 quarter in my collection. Is there a way to determine which it is, a 68 or a 68a? It seems that the photos in the two numista listings are identical.

Thanks,

VZ

On the RCM web site:

 

https://www.mint.ca/en/discover/canadian-circulation/25-cents

 

1953 – 1967
Composition: 80% silver, 20% copper
Weight (g): 5.83
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): n/a

 

1967 – 1968
Composition: 50% silver, 50% copper
Weight (g): 5.05
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): n/a

 

Regards,

Did you submit a similar change for the 1968 coin KM# 62a?

rsirian1

Did you submit a similar change for the 1968 coin KM# 62a?

Yes it's done now.