Clarify the meaning of the shape “scyphate” [gelöst]

Coins with this shape: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?f=35&ct=coin
Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scyphate

We have this shape with translation
(en) Scyphate
(fr) Scyphate
(es) Escífata
(de) Scyphat
(it) --pending--

It is understandable? Or perhaps an clarification needs to be added?
(en) Scyphate or concave
(fr) Scyphate ou concave
(es) Escífata o cóncava
(de) Scyphat oder konkav
(it) --pending--

On the other hand, I think the image on the page https://en.numista.com/catalogue/shapes.php does not reflect the concavity (I know it is difficult!).

It would distinguish between scyphate technique and scyphate shape. I would not mind the change.

Please use the term ‘Concave’.

I have never come across a convex shaped coin.

Aidan.

Convex and concave (bowing inwards and bowing outwards) are relative terms in the case of coins and quite useless unless one side is still straight or both sides are convex or concave. Then rather bowl shaped or something similar. 

Also heads/helmets are probably neither scyphates nor whatever word might replace it 😅

N#151453 

N#291389 

Idolenz

Convex and concave (bowing inwards and bowing outwards) are relative terms in the case of coins and quite useless unless one side is still straight or both sides are convex or concave. Then rather bowl shaped or something similar. 

 

Also heads/helmets are probably neither scyphates nor whatever word might replace it 😅

N#151453 

N#291389 

A bowl shape is concave.

Those are very strange convex objects that don't even look like coins to me.

Aidan.

davidhs

We have this shape with translation
(en) Scyphate
(fr) Scyphate
(es) Escífata
(de) Scyphat
(it) --pending

(es) Escifata

(it) Scifato

And when you turn a bowl around it is convex, coins aren't bowls, they usually have two “functional” sides. At least that word anyone might understand.

The latest issue of the Bulletin Numismatique (https://www.bulletin-numismatique.fr/bn/pdf/bn233.pdf) has an article (p.31) explaining that the word “scyphate” is inadequate to describe these coins. According to the authors, who cite multiple sources, the word derives from Arabic “shiffi”, which refers to the triple border of the nomisma coin of the 11th century. The authors recommend using the word “concave” instead (even if they won't apply the recommendation for their own sales and they will keep the inadequate word “scypahte” in their lot description, which they consider as more widely understood).

I agree we could change the word in our list of shapes. I would be in favour of the term “concave”, even if “convex” and “bowl-shaped” are also technically correct.

I renamed the shape “scyphate” into “concave”.

Whilst I'd never come across scyphate before, it does seem to be the correct term. The OED defines it as

Of a coin (esp. from the late Byzantine Empire): having the shape of a shallow bowl; concave, cup-shaped.

which implies that concave is a reasonable substitute. However, a concave lens is not scyphate, since it is thinner in the middle than at the edges, so I fear using the term concave is only going to lead to problems further down the line. Perhaps the term scyphate could be linked to a description? Then everyone can learn its meaning.

Xavier

I renamed the shape “scyphate” into “concave”.

Change the corresponding Technique, “Hammered (scyphate).”

What should be the name of the technique in your opinion?

Xavier

What should be the name of the technique in your opinion?

Hammered (concave) or just the basic Hammered.