1861 Saxony Vereinsthaler

Picked up one of these yesterday.  However, I am trying to figure out some of the differences between all of these.  I don't have the mining version.  That's easy enough.

N#47542

N#47541

That's KM 1210 and 1211.  One says smaller text, which according to Krause, refers to the legend, so the letters “Providentiae Memor” is what I assume they refer to.  I can't see a difference in these two pictures.  The smaller text page does not mention an edge inscription.  Is this actually correct though?  If someone can find a difference between the size of the texts, I'd be grateful to have it pointed out to me.  Krause does not show a picture for 1211, at least not in the 9th edition which is the last one I have, merely a note about smaller text in legend.  1210 lists a note that simply says “Note: Vereins Thaler”.  I'm not able to figure out how that's any different than all the rest?  I don't have a catalog more specific to the area to check it against.

N#47540

Here is KM 1213.  This picture seems identical to me as well.  However, it does not match the photo in Krause.  There should be a circle around the coat of arms and a flower? on either side of the date, so this picture seems incorrect.  It appears to be the same as what we show for 1210 and 1211.  If 1211 is lacking an edge inscription like the rest, then that's the solution to what's different, but based on the picture of 1213 mismatching Krause, I wonder if that is merely an oversight.  If that's the real difference, it seems like it'd be easier for Krause to just say that.

My brain's quite tired today, so maybe I'm missing something, but if anyone could kindly point it out, I'd be grateful.  Thank you.

To my eye there is a slight difference in the text. One appears closer to the rim for example and appears thicker or as a bolder type.

Very good eye.  That then raises the issue though that the thicker, bolder text is on the coin labelled as the ‘smaller text’, which further adds to my confusion.  Numista may have these backwards though.  I'm still sure that KM 1213 is an incorrect picture.

I'm having a hard time finding images of this coin slabbed.  Ebay shows one, which PCGS labels as KM 1210, but it doesn't show a reverse image.  Another ebay listing, by a seemingly reputable dealer in North Carolina claims to be KM 1211, but it is a version of KM 1213 with the circle around the coat of arms.  But I think you've proven them wrong by showing that 1211 and 1210 do have slightly different text.  I received a PM from someone who was going to check a more specific catalog.  Hopefully they'll be able to clear up the confusion.  I am thinking the Numista images and most everyone on ebay are also confused by all these types.

Sorry to add to the confusion but upon further inquiry I found this at NGC - KM 1214 including a 1861 date. Not sure what the answers are but more work and research definitely needs to be done.

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/german-states-saxony-albertine-thaler-km-1214-1861-1871-cuid-1203044-duid-1378181

Right, the 1214 page on Numista is correct. I didn't worry about that one because I don't have the circle around the coat of arms. My current theory is that the Numista image of 1213 is really 1210 or 1211 because it should also have the same circle and flowers as 1214 and the Numsita images of 1210 and 1211 are probably reversed and jury's out on the edge inscription on 1211, whether it's plain or whoever created the page simply left it out.  

hello, I promised to summarise the description of the thun catalog.(Norbert Thun, Deutsche taler,…, Frankfurt 1979)

There is also a one-to-one reference to an earlier (Kurt) Jaeger catalog, which I don't have. Thun catalog describes 4 types of Vereinstaler, saxony 1861:

T 344 = J 117 = N#47542 

T 345 = J 118 = N#47541 

T 345 has a comment: Changed reverse, “durchbrochene Leiste”, but from the pictures I cannot see any difference and coins in catalog have quite different condition.

T 346 = J 119 , no numista nr.

Perhaps N#47540 should be this, but reverse and references are other (sub-)types. There is also an old topic about this error.

T 348 = J 126 = N#24692 

Hope, this can help, especially an owner of the Jeager catalog could add details.

To complete:

T 346 and T 348 are easy to detect: reverse is showing a line between text and center.

Position of text on obverse is the difference between these types.

text on rim is the same for each type.

Thank you for your help Stefan.  The note about the edge will have to be added to the one page.  I'll have to keep searching the internet for correct pictures before I go trying to fix all that though, but I suspect, KM's 1210, 1211 and 1213 are all incorrect.