WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump says he has directed the Treasury Department to stop minting new pennies, citing the cost of producing the one-cent coin.
“For far too long the United States has minted pennies which literally cost us more than 2 cents. This is so wasteful!” Trump wrote in a post Sunday night on his Truth Social site. “I have instructed my Secretary of the US Treasury to stop producing new pennies.”
Trump’s new administration has been sharply focused on cutting costs, targeting entire agencies and large swaths of the federal workforce for dismissal.
“Let’s rip the waste out of our great nations budget, even if it’s a penny at a time,” he wrote.
Trump sent the message after attending the first half of the Super Bowl in New Orleans.
I guess the 2025 Lincoln cent will be the final year, shame it didn't make it to the US semiquincentennial (250th Anniversary), on July 4, 2026, that would have been pretty cool. I wonder how many 2025 pennies have been made so far this year, if any? There have been no pictures of any on Google, eBay, or even Numista. It could possibly become a very rare key date! We'll see what happens…
Parker Freeze (@freeze_coins)
• Referee for coins from Burkina Faso
I've always been on the fence about it, I get both sides. I have seen a bunch of people talk about how wasteful it is and how unnecessary they are in daily life, which is true. It really was inevitable, it would have happened sooner or later.
I mean, it has worked out great for Canada so why shouldn't the united states follow suit.
Now I wonder if people are going to start complaining about the Kennedy Half Dollars and Sacagawea dollars which are still being produced to this day, but do not circulate much at all today.
Parker Freeze (@freeze_coins)
• Referee for coins from Burkina Faso
I've always been on the fence about it, I get both sides. I have seen a bunch of people talk about how wasteful it is and how unnecessary they are in daily life, which is true. It really was inevitable, it would have happened sooner or later.
I mean, it has worked out great for Canada so why shouldn't the united states follow suit.
Now I wonder if people are going to start complaining about the Kennedy Half Dollars and Sacagawea dollars which are still being produced to this day, but do not circulate much at all today.
I think JFK and Sacagaewa still have a ways to go before they'll be discontinued, since their mintage is maybe 1/1000 that of pennies, and probably a lot more cost-effective anyways, and a lot of people probably don't even know they circulate at all, so I'm not expecting any public push to drop these like with the penny.
I wonder how many 2025 pennies have been made so far this year, if any? There have been no pictures of any on Google, eBay, or even Numista. It could possibly become a very rare key date! We'll see what happens…
Actually, quite a few were minted last month. Here's what was reported directly from the U.S. Mint's most recent report:
February numbers haven't been reported yet. We'll have to wait a few weeks for an updated report.
I doubt that there will be any shortage of 2025 Lincoln cents if someone really wants one. Why do I say that? Because back in 2012 when Canada discontinued their penny, the RCM issued special wrap rolls and a host of other commemorative issues in order to properly monetize the occasion. 😀 I doubt that the U.S. Mint would pass up a golden opportunity to equally profit from the Lincoln Cent's retirement.
Normal people do that by introducing legislation that rounds prices to five cents. Remove requirement for one cent instead of charging a windmill.
Discarding the ‘cent’ doesn't necessarily mean that prices have to be rounded to the nearest 5 cents.
Many countries in the Euro zone do no longer use the 1 and 2 cent coins, but retail prices will be in any number of cents. It is only the final transaction which is rounded to the nearest 5 cents, and only when paid in Cash. This practice is covered by legislation.
So you can load your basket with cent-priced goods in the supermarket up till e.g €28.08 and then you pay €28.10 in cash, or pay €28.08 by card.
Same rules were applied in pre-Euro Netherlands when the guilder cent was abolished in 1980. That abolishment, too, was driven by the exceeding metal value and manufacturing price.
Whoever does it, this move should have come a long time ago. Some will say that they're being cheated by the rounding up, but if you look at the US inflation calculator, the penny in 1924 (i.e. about 100 years ago) was equivalent to 18.3 cents in 2024.
If you want to fight against the move towards a cashless society, the best thing to do is make cash efficient and even profitable.
There have been rumors and discussions for quite some time in Canada to terminate the nickel as well. Perhaps the US of A will do it before we do?
It remains unclear whether Trump can unilaterally stop minting pennies, as Congress controls currency specifications. However, Northeastern University economist Robert K. Triest suggested the Treasury Secretary might have some discretion.
Interestingly, if this goes through, the demand for nickels may increase, which is a money-losing undertaking as @rsirian1 pointed out in the post he linked. See this GlobalTreasurer piece.
Yes, it is a sensible thing to do, however they would need to actually have a transition plan so that businesses and customers know how to deal with the elimination of the cent coin. And past experience doesn't give me any optimism that this administration would bother with a competent follow through. Also, the correct way to eliminate a coin would be to pass a law (that also specifies how transactions should be rounded, etc.). I think the most the executive branch can legally do is simply stop minting the coins except for collectors (like how half dollars and dollar coins are currently produced). But that doesn't provide any guidance for businesses and customers.
I definitely agree with Camerinvs about making cash efficient so as to keep it viable. I always try to use cash when shopping at local small businesses, because credit card processing fees can be a significant overhead for them, especially on smaller transactions.
Yes, it is a sensible thing to do, however they would need to actually have a transition plan so that businesses and customers know how to deal with the elimination of the cent coin. And past experience doesn't give me any optimism that this administration would bother with a competent follow through. Also, the correct way to eliminate a coin would be to pass a law (that also specifies how transactions should be rounded, etc.). I think the most the executive branch can legally do is simply stop minting the coins except for collectors (like how half dollars and dollar coins are currently produced). But that doesn't provide any guidance for businesses and customers.
I definitely agree with Camerinvs about making cash efficient so as to keep it viable. I always try to use cash when shopping at local small businesses, because credit card processing fees can be a significant overhead for them, especially on smaller transactions.
Yes, that's a good point. You cannot just eliminate the cent without passing a law aboud rounding.
Yes, that's a good point. You cannot just eliminate the cent without passing a law aboud rounding.
Absolutely they can! Treasury is in the Executive Branch. Laws are created by the Legislative Branch. The Presidential Administration can direct Treasury to stop without Congress passing any new law. You're confusing logical thinking by logical people with the current situation.
Yes, that's a good point. You cannot just eliminate the cent without passing a law aboud rounding.
Absolutely they can! Treasury is in the Executive Branch. Laws are created by the Legislative Branch. The Presidential Administration can direct Treasury to stop without Congress passing any new law. You're confusing logical thinking by logical people with the current situation.
I guess my “can” was non technical. It was more of a “You definitely shouldn't do this" kind of argument. I agree that "logic" isn't in the art of the current deal.
Cerulean
In a world without the nickel, what happens to the quarter?
Unfortunately I can't find the reference any longer, but this came up several years ago in a piece about the possible end of the Canadian “nickel”. Indeed the quarter would have to go and be replaced with probably a 20 cents while the 50 cents would be given a second lease on life.
I suppose another, simpler solution would be to significantly reduce the size of the “nickel” — perhaps to its size when it was a silver coin (but of course in copper-nickel).
Yes, that's a good point. You cannot just eliminate the cent without passing a law aboud rounding.
Absolutely they can! Treasury is in the Executive Branch. Laws are created by the Legislative Branch. The Presidential Administration can direct Treasury to stop without Congress passing any new law. You're confusing logical thinking by logical people with the current situation.
I guess my “can” was non technical. It was more of a “You definitely shouldn't do this" kind of argument. I agree that "logic" isn't in the art of the current deal.
This is part of a report put out by the US GAO on options for the elimination or continuation of the 1 cent coin. Among considerations were what to do with the nickel, legislation for rounding prices, “buying” back pennies already in circulation, effect on zinc producers, etc. It was written almost 30 years ago in 1996. At the time the cost to make a penny was less than 1 cent.
I don’t want the penny to go. I love the little copper coin. I know it costs more than 1 cent to make a penny, but there has to be some way to change it to make the price go down. I know if they replace it with something like aluminum, it would be easily confused with the dime, but I’ve been thinking about what if they anodized the aluminum, making it orange without the use of copper. The price of anodizing aluminum varies between sources, but it seems like it’s cheap to do. So if it is cheap enough to anodize aluminum coins, then I think they should do that for the penny.
Collecting pennies has been a big hobby of mine, and I don’t know what I’ll do without them.
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
I'm sure they would still make pennies for collectors, the way they still make Kennedy half dollars and Sacagawea dollars. (Also $2 bills.)
Pennies are useless in circulation. They get counted out of cash register drawers, handed to customers and change, and promptly tossed in a jar and returned to the bank (if not thrown in the literal trash!). A waste of time for everyone involved.
But the problem about minting commemorative pennies is that they will probably be made of silver of gold like the Canadian commemoratives, or they will be worth more than one cent, which is something I don’t want to happen. I like collecting pennies because they are cheap, which makes them easy to collect. But if they become commemorative, they will probably be worth more.
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
I don’t want the penny to go. I love the little copper coin. I know it costs more than 1 cent to make a penny, but there has to be some way to change it to make the price go down. I know if they replace it with something like aluminum, it would be easily confused with the dime, but I’ve been thinking about what if they anodized the aluminum, making it orange without the use of copper. The price of anodizing aluminum varies between sources, but it seems like it’s cheap to do. So if it is cheap enough to anodize aluminum coins, then I think they should do that for the penny.
Collecting pennies has been a big hobby of mine, and I don’t know what I’ll do without them.
While it is true that aluminum costs less than zinc (~93%) the added cost of the colored anodize (needed for corrosion protection also) is probably higher than copper plated zinc. Regardless, switching to aluminum and assuming other processing costs to make a planchet remain the same, the total unit cost to make a penny goes from 3.69 cents to 3.45 cents.
The overriding issue is that there is no longer a good reason to make 4.5 Billion pennies a year.
Or maybe instead of keeping the penny a copper color, it’s size could shrink to ~15 mm and also be made of aluminum, while the dime gets the copper color that the penny had.
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Or maybe instead of keeping the penny a copper color, it’s size could shrink to ~15 mm and also be made of aluminum, while the dime gets the copper color that the penny had.
Yes! I was just working on the calculation. Keep the penny copper plated zinc but reduce the size to 10 mm. One third of the material costs is about break even.
Or maybe instead of keeping the penny a copper color, it’s size could shrink to ~15 mm and also be made of aluminum, while the dime gets the copper color that the penny had.
Yes! I was just working on the calculation. Keep the penny copper plated zinc but reduce the size to 10 mm. One third of the material costs is about break even.
Someone call DOGE!
What about a 15 mm aluminum coin? That surely has to be cheap. And as I said, to avoid the confusion, just make dimes copper.
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Or maybe instead of keeping the penny a copper color, it’s size could shrink to ~15 mm and also be made of aluminum, while the dime gets the copper color that the penny had.
Yes! I was just working on the calculation. Keep the penny copper plated zinc but reduce the size to 10 mm. One third of the material costs is about break even.
Someone call DOGE!
What about a 15 mm aluminum coin? That surely has to be cheap. And as I said, to avoid the confusion, just make dimes copper.
The mint tried every conceivable combination of material and found them all wanting for one reason or another. Also I can't imagine that under the reign of Orange Man with his crusade for supposed American greatness he would allow the introduction of money reminiscent of Soviet era style alu-chip coins.
Or maybe instead of keeping the penny a copper color, it’s size could shrink to ~15 mm and also be made of aluminum, while the dime gets the copper color that the penny had.
Yes! I was just working on the calculation. Keep the penny copper plated zinc but reduce the size to 10 mm. One third of the material costs is about break even.
Someone call DOGE!
What about a 15 mm aluminum coin? That surely has to be cheap. And as I said, to avoid the confusion, just make dimes copper.
So let’s say that the new penny has about the same size and composition as N#2742, with a diameter of 14.7 mm, a thickness of 1.4 mm, and a mass of 0.5 grams. This would cost about 0.132 cents to make. And then for the copper dime, we could just swap the material around, so instead of nickel plated copper, it’s copper plated nickel.
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
I would just humbly point out that the U.S. Lincoln Cent isn't going anywhere. It's only being discontinued. People don't seem to make that connection. 100 years from now the Lincoln Cent will still be around in abundance.
In fact, I still get Canadian 1-cent coins occasionally in my change . . . and the Canadian cent was discontinued 13 years ago.
I would just humbly point out that the U.S. Lincoln Cent isn't going anywhere. It's only being discontinued. People don't seem to make that connection. 100 years from now the Lincoln Cent will still be around in abundance.
In fact, I still get Canadian 1-cent coins occasionally in my change . . . and the Canadian cent was discontinued 13 years ago.
I know, but if you were me, you would understand why I want the penny to stay
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Or maybe instead of keeping the penny a copper color, it’s size could shrink to ~15 mm and also be made of aluminum, while the dime gets the copper color that the penny had.
Yes! I was just working on the calculation. Keep the penny copper plated zinc but reduce the size to 10 mm. One third of the material costs is about break even.
Someone call DOGE!
What about a 15 mm aluminum coin? That surely has to be cheap. And as I said, to avoid the confusion, just make dimes copper.
So let’s say that the new penny has about the same size and composition as N#2742, with a diameter of 14.7 mm, a thickness of 1.4 mm, and a mass of 0.5 grams. This would cost about 0.132 cents to make. And then for the copper dime, we could just swap the material around, so instead of nickel plated copper, it’s copper plated nickel.
The only problem I think people may have with this is that Americans have it burned into their mind that copper colored coins are low value, silver colored coins are in between, and gold colored coins are high value.
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Maybe an holed aluminium penny coin to discriminate wrt the dime.
To give more power to the change , what do you think about to reabilitate the half-dollar (a smaller ones), to introduce a 2-dollar coin and keep the Washington bills ?
Maybe an holed aluminium penny coin to discriminate wrt the dime.
To give more power to the change , what do you think about to reabilitate the half-dollar (a smaller ones), to introduce a 2-dollar coin and keep the Washington bills ?
That is a good idea
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
IdolenzAlso I can't imagine that under the reign of Orange Man with his crusade for supposed American greatness he would allow the introduction of money reminiscent of Soviet era style alu-chip coins.
Yea because AMERICA RULES AND EVERYONE ELSE DROOLS
Someone should warn Türkiye, Cote D’Ivorie, and Cabo Verde before The Orange Man forces them to change their names back to English
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Ah ah, and those who advocate for an aluminium penny should be reminded that tariffs will be imposed on steel and aluminium on March 12 IF one believes the current occupier of the highest office.
I was thinking the only solution is to print 1-cent stamps, loads and loads of them, but of course the only viable solution is to terminate the penny since it has virtually no purchasing power.
You want a healthy currency system in order to fight the corporate push towards the end of cash. Any deficit in the minting of money will be used against you.
In the end it barely matters what the coin is made of, if nobody actually uses the thing anyway. One cent doesn't buy anything nowadays, and its only purpose is to allow prices to be exactly expressed and change given in cents. But those cents are immediately put into a change jar to await their return to the bank; they're never used as actual currency.
The same is true of nickels and dimes, in my opinion. The quarter still has some economic use for parking meters, laundromats, vending machines, etc. If I were magically in charge, I would probably get rid of everything smaller than the quarter and have cash transactions rounded to the nearest multiple of 25 cents. Also eliminate the dollar bill and circulate the half dollar, dollar coin, and $2 bill. In the near term, switch the $2 bill to a coin.
Also eliminate the dollar bill and circulate the half dollar, dollar coin, and $2 bill. In the near term, switch the $2 bill to a coin.
The Kennedy Half dollar hasn't circulated in many decades. In fact, even when I lived in Manhattan (New York City) back in the early 1990's I don't remember seeing it in circulation. Apart from usage in Casinos I don't think large metal coins will ever catch on.
There is a U.S. bank that is close to my house and even they don't accept coins anymore. You read that correctly. They refuse to accept or dispense any coins. They only take paper currency. I thought that was strange, but I guess that's where things are headed.
I'm sure they would still make pennies for collectors, the way they still make Kennedy half dollars and Sacagawea dollars. (Also $2 bills.)
I think the chances are approaching zero that Trump considered this at all or that the EO leaves any such wriggle room. The ‘Ready! Fire! Why Aim at all?’ guy doesn't DO nuance or detail. Or policy evaluation.
I bet this throws the 2025 proof set timeline into absolute chaos. I'm betting the cases are already manufactured and we end up with sets with an empty penny slot.
I hate to admit it, but Trump has done something right.
The penny should have been retired ages ago, like around 1990 to 2000. The nickel should go too, such a large coin with so little worth.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I bet this throws the 2025 proof set timeline into absolute chaos. I'm betting the cases are already manufactured and we end up with sets with an empty penny slot.
Proof pennies are already made. The proof set goes on sale in less than three weeks.
He’ll probably try to gather up all the Pennies he can so he can melt them all down and turn them into a giant statue of himself because he’s the “Greatest president”
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
He’ll probably try to gather up all the Pennies he can so he can melt them all down and turn them into a giant statue of himself because he’s the “Greatest president”
So they won't get a single cent from me. I will defend them with my own body, attack me, but I won't give a single cent.
What a hassle it was to get them by mail from America. Through customs, heavy currency.
All they need to do is release a set of new cents for collectors every year.
I don't know about Mr. President Trump but Elon Musk is way too smart for any sort of buyback. Conservatively, there are 10 trillion pennies in circulation. The US is not going to set aside $100 Billion to redeem those pennies. There will be no law demonitizing them any more than there was for the ½ cent last made in 1857 which you can still spend today if you want.
Not really. Say what you like but starting and running several multi billion dollar companies takes some smarts. More than I and probably more than you.
I agree pennies won't be demonetized. So, people will be able to bring them back at the bank for redemption.
Now, the worst part of it is that for years we'll have to suffer through idiotic online posts about hoarding pennies and how your pennies are worth so much more than you think. Until just a few years ago, we were getting these idiotic “look for silver in your change” types of post. Yeah, the one dime I found eight or nine years ago is currently worth $2.75. Wow! I should spend more time looking for silver in my change. I made $2.65 above face value…
Now, since the Trump-Musk government is working for the ultra rich, they'll probably find a way for the People to compensate the zinc industrials who're gonna lose their government contracts. The economies realized in not producing the penny may be usefully applied towards compensating them and, of course, towards another tax cut for the billionaires.
I read somewhere some time ago that it was the zinc lobby which kept the penny in your pockets. Zinc is cheap but it is a by-product in the extraction of other, more valuable metals, so if you don't have a market for it you get stuck with it. I suppose the Mint's need for zinc helped to maintain its price on the markets and provided the mining sector (especially copper and silver) with a steady income from selling the surplusses.
“Say what you like but starting and running several multi billion dollar companies takes some smarts.”
I probably would've agreed with that to a large extent (he didn't ‘start’ any of his companies, but still…) before he took over Twitter and started posting incoherent stupidity non-stop daily for months and months on end.
If nothing else, Trump and Musk have proven beyond any doubt that even very stupid (and very gullible) people can be billionaires. Being a nepo-baby trumps (pun intended) brains and ability…..
“Say what you like but starting and running several multi billion dollar companies takes some smarts.”
I probably would've agreed with that to a large extent (he didn't ‘start’ any of his companies, but still…) before he took over Twitter and started posting incoherent stupidity non-stop daily for months and months on end.
If nothing else, Trump and Musk have proven beyond any doubt that even very stupid (and very gullible) people can be billionaires. Being a nepo-baby trumps (pun intended) brains and ability…..
But we're way off topic, so I'll stop.
I guess Trump was elected by the majority of the American people….or did I miss something?
Zinc - less than 2% of zinc supplies go to making pennies. Ever hear of galvanized steel?
Not just that, but also brass, some types of solder, and a lot of other alloys, zinc batteries, zinc oxide and sulfide as pigments in paint, etc. it’s also got a good amount of use as a raw metal for anodes and sheet metal.
It might not be a super valuable metal, but it’s far from a useless commodity. I think the idea of a “zinc lobby” being the only reason US cents lasted as long as they have is pretty ridiculous given that zinc suppliers probably only would have gotten a tiny fraction of their income from the mint.
“Say what you like but starting and running several multi billion dollar companies takes some smarts.”
I probably would've agreed with that to a large extent (he didn't ‘start’ any of his companies, but still…) before he took over Twitter and started posting incoherent stupidity non-stop daily for months and months on end.
If nothing else, Trump and Musk have proven beyond any doubt that even very stupid (and very gullible) people can be billionaires. Being a nepo-baby trumps (pun intended) brains and ability…..
But we're way off topic, so I'll stop.
I guess Trump was elected by the majority of the American people….or did I miss something?
Being elected doesn’t make you a good president.
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Not really. Say what you like but starting and running several multi billion dollar companies takes some smarts. More than I and probably more than you.
My experiences in life tells me that if you're born and raised in a wealthy family, you do not have to be very “smart” to stay rich. You do need skills though, but “smarts” is not necessary. It's quite obvious when listening to Trump (and his mostly incoherent ramblings) that he's harvesting “smarts” of other people, which is also a skill. I have had bosses like him and they very seldomly last.
When it comes to the penny, someone had a bright idea many years ago, and now we have an administration that hungers for attention. Voila!
The copper-coated coin is 97.5% zinc, and the 3.2 billion produced in 2024 topped 17 million pounds — so if the penny goes away, so does a steady customer for the metal.
Not really. Say what you like but starting and running several multi billion dollar companies takes some smarts. More than I and probably more than you.
My experiences in life tells me that if you're born and raised in a wealthy family, you do not have to be very “smart” to stay rich. You do need skills though, but “smarts” is not necessary. It's quite obvious when listening to Trump (and his mostly incoherent ramblings) that he's harvesting “smarts” of other people, which is also a skill. I have had bosses like him and they very seldomly last.
When it comes to the penny, someone had a bright idea many years ago, and now we have an administration that hungers for attention. Voila!
Shame that we have someone dumber than a box of rocks as president
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Yes, but: The total volume of zinc used in penny production represents a sliver of global output, which topped 14 million tonnes as recently as 2021.
Nyrstar — which operates some of the largest American zinc mines — tells Axios that “any decisions around penny production would not impact Nyrstar's business in the U.S.”
“Say what you like but starting and running several multi billion dollar companies takes some smarts.”
I probably would've agreed with that to a large extent (he didn't ‘start’ any of his companies, but still…) before he took over Twitter and started posting incoherent stupidity non-stop daily for months and months on end.
If nothing else, Trump and Musk have proven beyond any doubt that even very stupid (and very gullible) people can be billionaires. Being a nepo-baby trumps (pun intended) brains and ability…..
But we're way off topic, so I'll stop.
I guess Trump was elected by the majority of the American people….or did I miss something?
Being elected doesn’t make you a good president.
But I guess it is the best, the Americans could elect for😝
yvon I guess Trump was elected by the majority of the American people….or did I miss something?
Being elected doesn’t make you a good president.
But I guess it is the best, the Americans could elect for😝
In a country where you can choose between umpty different kinds of products in the stores, you're most likely only able to choose between two candidates at the presidential elections, thanks to the electoral system.
I don't know about Mr. President Trump but Elon Musk is way too smart for any sort of buyback. Conservatively, there are 10 trillion pennies in circulation. The US is not going to set aside $100 Billion to redeem those pennies. There will be no law demonitizing them any more than there was for the ½ cent last made in 1857 which you can still spend today if you want.
Where did you get that number, average mintage per year is 8 - 10 billion from both mints D and P. Biggest year was 1994 with 21 billion from both mints and a milly or 2 from West Point. Assuming we have 30 years of pennies in circulation at once on average, I get a generous figure of 300 Billion pennies in circulation at once. This is high if you assume, the numbers of pennies, hoarded, lost, melted down and becoming archaeology - my guess is more than 100 billion are like this leaving 200 billion pennies or some 2% of your guess.
I doubt even if 1 trillion pennies have been minted in total. High numbers in the 60s were 500 million coins, 40s 200 million and around 1900 - 50 - 80 million.
Still it would cost $200 Million to call in those pennies and maybe $50 million more for those precious enough to claim rarities on common coins. Melting them down would recoup some losses as the Federal Reserve would pay face value only, whether its a 2008 Zincoln, a 1909 S VDB or a 1793 Chain cent.
And given most coin recalls, about 80% at most would be redeemed, due to hoarders and those loath to let go of pre 1982 copper pennies and would sell them to the scrappies, unless Donald Duck Trump banned that too.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I miscalculated. Closer to ¼ trillion still in circulation. Thanks for the correction.
I think the whole let's melt them down doesn't make much sense. No scrap dealer is going to take in pennies that may be (mostly) copper or may be almost 100% zinc mixed together. Who's going to sort the pre-1982 from the post-1982? Is a scrap dealer going to take my word that the 120 pounds (54 kg) of pennies are all 95% copper especially since most states require all scrap dealers to report how much copper they took in and by whom to combat rampant stealing of copper from construction sites? So either the government does it or you just go on using pennies.
I won't melt anything! And that's it! I'm going to dig a hole in the garden and hide it. And I'll put a statue of Jaromír Jágr over the hole so that no one digs there behind the big pond.
I won't give a cent! I will defend myself with my own body!
I won't melt anything! And that's it! I'm going to dig a hole in the garden and hide it. And I'll put a statue of Jaromír Jágr over the hole so that no one digs there behind the big pond.
I won't give a cent! I will defend myself with my own body!
Ivan
I agree with you 100%
Did you know that Pluto is still a planet in Illinois and New Mexico and has de facto recognition as a planet in Arizona?
Yes, it is a sensible thing to do, however they would need to actually have a transition plan so that businesses and customers know how to deal with the elimination of the cent coin. And past experience doesn't give me any optimism that this administration would bother with a competent follow through. Also, the correct way to eliminate a coin would be to pass a law (that also specifies how transactions should be rounded, etc.). I think the most the executive branch can legally do is simply stop minting the coins except for collectors (like how half dollars and dollar coins are currently produced). But that doesn't provide any guidance for businesses and customers.
I definitely agree with Camerinvs about making cash efficient so as to keep it viable. I always try to use cash when shopping at local small businesses, because credit card processing fees can be a significant overhead for them, especially on smaller transactions.
Yes, that's a good point. You cannot just eliminate the cent without passing a law aboud rounding.
I think how businesses deal with this kind of thing is not in scope for the federal government … It would be up to the states (just like other discussions on whether businesses can refuse to accept cash).
As pointed out elsewhere, it doesn't affect non-cash transactions, which is how most things get done these days.
Practically speaking, it's just not a big issue. If the federal government kills the one cent coin, the states then issue some guidance to retailers on rounding, and it's done.
Never say never. In times of war and other circumstances, metal demand and price can change in no time, including copper. If there is enough demand or if there is an emergency, they will find a way to sort the copper pennies from those primarily of other metals, you will just be offered less for them due to the costs of sorting. There is clean copper, dirty copper, and other grades when sorting at the recycle yards. Copper is now valued at what silver was 50 years ago/oz. In my mind Copper is now in the position to be the poor mans silver and gold. Still affordable for the average person long term. Strategically and economically, demand for copper keeps rising but supply is getting more difficult for many reasons including countries that hoard strategic metals. Hang on to those copper pennies folks and try to keep them from other types if possible. I have recycled a lot of metals over the years Including copper, brass, bronze, etc.
I believe a uniform rounding policy would be dictated by the US Congress.
From the same reference I posted above:
One option would be to stop producing the penny and round all cash transactions. H.R. 3761, introduced in 1989, provided a specific approach for this option. Among the pros of this option are that it would allow the government to stop losing some money on the penny’s production and handling activities and that cash transactions between sellers and buyers might eventually become quicker by eliminating the time spent associated with handling pennies. Among the cons are that people would be forced into having prices rounded, the government might incur a significant one-time cost from returned pennies, and contractors producing the penny blanks as well as those in related businesses would be adversely affected.
In 1990, we reported that, in 1980, the U.S. Army in Europe asked the American military facilities in Europe to eliminate the penny because of the expense of transporting the coins there. All but three facilities—the Post Office, the commercial bank, and the Finance Office—agreed to the change. These three facilities were bound by regulations that would not allow them to round prices. The commissaries and Army and Air Force Exchange Service facilities welcomed the coin’s elimination and said that they were not adversely affected by it. Officials said that, while a few complaints were received initially, as customers became familiar with the rounding policy, complaints decreased and then were rarely received. However, officials said that the facilities often rounded down to minimize complaints. Also, we reported that, while the facilities did not give pennies as change, they accepted pennies if people wanted to pay with them.
Maybe but do you really want 51 different ways of doing things? I think Congress will handle it. And from all the information being put out from the current administration about how all this will be implemented it seems obvious….oh wait. The only information I found from the US Government on implementation was from 1996 when ready and aim came before fire.
So there would need to be rounding rules for “Federal businesses" like the postal service and commissaries … makes sense.
But I think states would do their own thing with other commerce.
As I said earlier, it is a misunderstanding that prices of goods have to be rounded when the penny is eliminated. Only rounding of cash transactions needs to get a legal basis.
It is in place like that in many European countries in the euro zone, and elsewhere. This is from a Dutch supermarkt flyer, cents all over, but we don't use the 1 and 2 cent coins any more in cash transactions:
I think banks are, typically, reluctant to remove coins from circulation. Over here in the UK, they fought hard against getting rid of the half-penny, before eventually relenting (I think 1984 off the top of my head).
Even now, we still have 1p & 2p coins which are now worth less in real terms than the half-penny was when it was removed. Even more ludicrous when you realise the 2p is our largest circulating coin!
I do think there is a point when the bank has to accept reality & discontinue them & I'm forever surprised that they still exist.
I quite liked what they did in Italy last I was there. Prices remained in 0.01 & the coins technically existed. But they would simply give you change to the nearest 0.05 (occassionally 0.10) rounded down and give you some sweet(s) to cover the excess.
So if you spent €4.71 & gave them €5, you'd get 20/25c in return & then a handful of sweets to cover the 9/4c they still “owed” you.
Everyone from the big chain supermarkets to the little independents.
Saves having to legislate & try to prevent price gouging.
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That being said, it's always sad to see a coin go especially when it's been around a long time. Suspect all the existing ones will still circulate for many years yet.
I suppose it's possible they might still keep making them for proof and year sets, like many other countries do with coins that are no longer struck for circulation. For example, Japan's 1 Yen.
Maybe but do you really want 51 different ways of doing things? I think Congress will handle it.
Congress can't handle much of anything.
And I don't think the feds have any jurisdiction over local retail business, only interstate commerce, which I doubt has any meaningful numbers of cash transactions. We saw that when the question came up of whether businesses can refuse cash payments, and the answer appears to be that it's determined by each state.
Several articles have cited the cost to produce one penny as “more than three cents”. According to Coinflation.com, the current metal content of the copper-plated zinc penny is 0.74 cents. So, 3.0 - 0.74 = 2.26 cents in overhead (manufacturing, distribution, and storage) costs, at a minimum. Even if the U.S. Mint could mint pennies out of thin air, it would still cost more than two cents each. The penny is impossible to cost-effectively produce, at any size or with any material.
The nickel is already facing the same dilemma. Apparently is costs "about eleven cents” to make a nickel, yet its metal value is only 5.38 cents. 11.0 - 5.38 = 5.62 cents. A nickel made of air would cost more than five cents to make.
Anyone who wants to save the low denominations would need to find a way to lower the manufacturing and overhead costs for the Mint, not by changing the material used.
The hundredth of a dollar stopped being a meaningful amount years ago. The dime should now be the smallest sub-unit of the dollar.
The easiest solution would be to simply stop minting and then demonetize the penny (the latter with an X days deadline). This procedure is used in many countries around the world.
I think the US would adopt a similar system to what Australia, Canada and a few Eurozone countries have done, which is discontinue minting the coins for circulation and just mint them for collectors sets only. Personally, I think the US Cent would not be demonetised it will just continue to circulate but can only be used in multiples of 5. Although I do think many people will start hoarding pre-1982 copper cents to strat melting them down for a profit so in the end it will be just the modern muck zinc cents.
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I think the US would adopt a similar system to what Australia, Canada and a few Eurozone countries have done, which is discontinue minting the coins for circulation and just mint them for collectors sets only. Personally, I think the US Cent would not be demonetised it will just continue to circulate but can only be used in multiples of 5. Although I do think many people will start hoarding pre-1982 copper cents to strat melting them down for a profit so in the end it will be just the modern muck zinc cents.
People started hoarding the copper cents back in 1982.
I think the US would adopt a similar system to what Australia, Canada and a few Eurozone countries have done, which is discontinue minting the coins for circulation and just mint them for collectors sets only. Personally, I think the US Cent would not be demonetised it will just continue to circulate but can only be used in multiples of 5. Although I do think many people will start hoarding pre-1982 copper cents to strat melting them down for a profit so in the end it will be just the modern muck zinc cents.
People started hoarding the copper cents back in 1982.
My apologies I should have said, “many more people including non-coin collectors would hoard pre 1982 copper cents like how they did with silver 50+ years ago.”
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
So there would need to be rounding rules for “Federal businesses" like the postal service and commissaries … makes sense.
But I think states would do their own thing with other commerce.
As I said earlier, it is a misunderstanding that prices of goods have to be rounded when the penny is eliminated. Only rounding of cash transactions needs to get a legal basis.
It is in place like that in many European countries in the euro zone, and elsewhere. This is from a Dutch supermarkt flyer, cents all over, but we don't use the 1 and 2 cent coins any more in cash transactions:
We have the same issue here, our smallest coin is the 10 cent piece and we have not had 1c and 2c since 1988, yet every price at supermarket and every bill ends in the nearest cent. How we get around it, is if you pay by direct debit, eftpos or credit card, you pay the exact amount down to the cent. However with cash you are rounded to the nearest 10 cents - so basically 94 cents = 90 cents, 95 cents = $1.00 etc.
Also if you buy quantity, its added up exactly, so 3 bananas at 37 cents each will be $1.11 and that will $1.10 in cash and yet 1 banana will be 40 cents cash etc.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
As an USA “one cent” coins collector I think I'll be a lit bit sad, at the same time the I can focus myself on the mints that I still miss.
Anyway the decision to stop minting the one cent coins, it's really understandable. Due to the enormous minting amounts produced before there wont be any shortage for sure.
I miscalculated. Closer to ¼ trillion still in circulation. Thanks for the correction.
I think the whole let's melt them down doesn't make much sense. No scrap dealer is going to take in pennies that may be (mostly) copper or may be almost 100% zinc mixed together. Who's going to sort the pre-1982 from the post-1982? Is a scrap dealer going to take my word that the 120 pounds (54 kg) of pennies are all 95% copper especially since most states require all scrap dealers to report how much copper they took in and by whom to combat rampant stealing of copper from construction sites? So either the government does it or you just go on using pennies.
Just counting the Lincoln cents (not including the wheat pennies), 548 billion (½ trillion) have been minted.
I miscalculated. Closer to ¼ trillion still in circulation. Thanks for the correction.
I think the whole let's melt them down doesn't make much sense. No scrap dealer is going to take in pennies that may be (mostly) copper or may be almost 100% zinc mixed together. Who's going to sort the pre-1982 from the post-1982? Is a scrap dealer going to take my word that the 120 pounds (54 kg) of pennies are all 95% copper especially since most states require all scrap dealers to report how much copper they took in and by whom to combat rampant stealing of copper from construction sites? So either the government does it or you just go on using pennies.
Just counting the Lincoln cents (not including the wheat pennies), 548 billion (½ trillion) have been minted.
That is 137.000 ton!!! if my calculation is correct.
True. If only ½ are still in circulation it's going to take a lot of people hoarding a lot of pennies to have any affect on values. And that number doesn't include the 25 billion wheat pennies minted.
“Due to the enormous minting amounts produced before there wont be any shortage for sure.”
I think this has it backwards. The enormous minting amounts are because there would be shortages otherwise, as most pennies get removed from circulation and stashed in pickle jars pretty quickly.
There will be no shortage in people's closets but pennies will pretty much cease to exist at retailers for use as change on purchases pretty quickly.
Usually when coins are retired or replaced, the central bank will give a year or two to redeem coins and then they become strictly for coin collectors. In those cases, I would suggest hoarders go through their coins and
1. Assemble a date set, whether it be just one coin a year, one of each mint or whatever they fancy
2. Look for and put aside any errors or rare dates in quantity if they can.
3. Redeem the rest for some MONEY!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
