Hey guys. I recently joined this Numista community to search more information on my coins. Actually right now I own an old Chinese coin from 1905 with « KWANG-HSI TEN CASH » written on it. I bought it in a Chinese flea market from a poor old man ( he was probably selling his old stuff to earn some money ). I did some research on internet about this coin but found very little information, almost everything I found was about a similar coin with a « KWANG-TUNG » inscription on it and it was priced at about $30. All the information I found on my coin was on this site and apparently it had a 91 rarity index. I also found two auctions were this coin was previously sold for $11.358 and 12.000. I am right now wondering if I could sell my coin for about the same price or at least know if it is actually real or fake (this coin looks absolutely genuine with some natural patina and just a little bit of scuffs and even after some close examination it still seems absolutely real).
The coin isn’t graded but it looks as somewhere between AU50 and XF. Can someone please give some more detailed information about it or help me make a difference between a real or a fake.
Always helps to actually ask a question if you want an answer. You should start by posting pictures of the coin with weight and diameter.
“I bought it in a Chinese flea market from a poor old man ( he was probably selling his old stuff to earn some money )” usually means, “Some guy sold me this fake.” Hopefully that's not the case here but that would surprise me.
Always helps to actually ask a question if you want an answer. You should start by posting pictures of the coin with weight and diameter.
“I bought it in a Chinese flea market from a poor old man ( he was probably selling his old stuff to earn some money )” usually means, “Some guy sold me this fake.” Hopefully that's not the case here but that would surprise me.
By the appearance of the seller and the market I really wouldn’t say they could have sold me a fake but appearances can be deceptive and that´s why I ´m asking
Agree, I watched some experts on YouTube to try and verify if it’s actually genuine or not but as l already said there is very little information about this exact coin so it´s very hard to say anything about it.
I'm far from an expert but compare your coin with the coin here on Numista and you can see for yourself the chance your coin is authentic is very very slim.
A few examples:
- Look at the beads on the inner ring : on the authentic coin the beads are equal in size and shape, on your coin they're not. And above all, your coin has 88 beads there while the authentic one has 92 beads.
- Look at the Chinese inscriptions. On the authentic coin they are sharp and detailed, on your coin they are vague, and that's not (only) because of wear and tear. Look at the beads between the high points on the two Chinese characters, the authentic coin has 6 beads in between, your coin has only 5:
- Compare the paw and head of the dragon. On your coin both are almost a caricature:
- When you compare further in detail you'll see differences everywhere.
You know what they say, when it's to good to be true, it probably isn't.
That’s probably it but the differences in the dragon and the chinese characters on my coin is just hidden by patina (when I observe closely all the details are ether hidden by patina ether eaten by wear and scuffs) the only convincing difference I think is in the beads. Thank you.
On this part the scuff hoes like that ↙️⬅️ and the right side of the right character’s stick is covered with patina and the left side is clear, that can also create an illusion of only 5 beads between the character.
Or for example as those beads are tightly squeezed in the authentic coin, on my coin there is a lot of wear on them and I have the feeling that they have just been compressed (in the wallet between other coins for example) and with all the years they just parted slowly or merged.
I will just take this coin to a professional expertise (I have a shop in my city that can do it) so that no problems occur. Still thank you everyone who replied.
Status geändert zu Gelöst(Mikhail K., 30 März 2025, 15:28)
You talk of wear and circulation damage obscuring the details of your coin. This is a 10 cash pattern (not a coin used to buy things) from Kwangsi Province. Who circulated it? 10 cash coins did not exist there then.
Just the fact that it is 120 years old and for all of those years it was in some random wallets rolling from one side to another can already make that it has some deep scuffs on it. I never said that those were circulation marks, just scuffs from random movements in someone’s pocket/wallet/bag/box/etc.
Just the fact that it is 120 years old and for all of those years it was in some random wallets rolling from one side to another can already make that it has some deep scuffs on it. I never said that those were circulation marks, just scuffs from random movements in someone’s pocket/wallet/bag/box/etc.
So why did rsirian say that it wasn’t circulated if circulation basically means constant existence in someone’s wallet. If it was not supposed to be circulated that means it wasn’t supposed to exist.
You talk of wear and circulation damage obscuring the details of your coin. This is a 10 cash pattern (not a coin used to buy things) from Kwangsi Province. Who circulated it? 10 cash coins did not exist there then.
What do you mean by “who circulated it?” Just some random guy having it in his wallet. And if you say that “10 cash coins didn’t exist there then” so from where do these coins actually come from (if authentic of course)?
And though as it’s a pattern there could be hundreds of different types of this exact coin and they are all gonna be genuine. That’s also the case why some coins will have 5 dots between the character’s sticks and some 6.
I'm not so sure that's a fact. It's also possible it's just a few years or decades old and altered to look old.
Mikhail K.
…all of those years it was in some random wallets rolling from one side to another can already make that it has some deep scuffs on it.
Your coin has 88 beads on the inner ring while the authentic one has 92 beads. Explain to me how you lose 4 beads without leaving an empty space where was one from rolling for years from one side to another? I didn't count the beads on the outer ring or the beads on the rings on the opposite side but I'm sure there's a difference too. You already miss a bead on the outer ring between the two middle Chinese character. Or do you still believe it's optical illusion?
Mikhail K.
So why did rsirian say that it wasn’t circulated if circulation basically means constant existence in someone’s wallet.
You are telling that the coin was constantly rolling in someone's wallet but did it? I say the coin is intentionally altered to look old.
Mikhail K.
If it was not supposed to be circulated that means it wasn’t supposed to exist.
These are two totally different things. Being not supposed to be circulated doesn't mean at all it wasn't supposed to exist. Or are you're going to say that all NCLT's weren't supposed to exist? Hahaha, I'm sure a lot of members would like that to be, since a lot of members don't like NCLT's but they are supposed to exist since they are the golden calf.
When you bring it to a real expert on Friday, I do hope you tell us the result but don't be disappointed if he confirms what we say.
The strange thing with the beads is probably because this coin is a prototype and as I know prototypes are very often a little bit different from one another. But I ’m still surprised how the heck did you manage to count all those tiny dots on the inner ring without any mistakes?
Pattern coins are usually made in such few quantities that they are all made with the same dies. Typically variants do not exist. It's too bad you have been scammed by an old man but you're not the first or the last. Learn from it and go on. Good luck to you.
But I ’m still surprised how the heck did you manage to count all those tiny dots on the inner ring without any mistakes?
That's no problem at all. And the pictures rsirian1 showed confirms I was right with the 92 beads on the authentic coin and 88 on yours.
I've once counted the notches on the edge of a Czechoslovakia 10 haleru 1953. Now that was a challenge. The 1953 Kremnica Mint coin has 130 notches, the 1953 Leningrad Mint coin has 133 notches.
I also found two auctions were this coin was previously sold for $11.358 and 12.000. I am right now wondering if I could sell my coin for about the same price.
Mikhail K.
I’m not really disappointed because I bough the coin for $1.5 and I can probably still sell it on Ebay for profit.
You bought your coin for $ 1.5 and then you're wondering if you could sell it for $ 11.000 to $ 12.000, what do you really think yourself? And if you buy such an expensive coin for $ 1.5, is it that surprising it's a fake? Although you're still convinced it might be.
But I ’m still surprised how the heck did you manage to count all those tiny dots on the inner ring without any mistakes?
That's no problem at all. And the pictures rsirian1 showed confirms I was right with the 92 beads on the authentic coin and 88 on yours.
I've once counted the notches on the edge of a Czechoslovakia 10 haleru 1953. Now that was a challenge. The 1953 Kremnica Mint coin has 130 notches, the 1953 Leningrad Mint coin has 133 notches.
Yes, but I've counted it somewhere in the 80's. At that time I had no information yet about the tongue, so the only possibility was effectively counting.
I also found two auctions were this coin was previously sold for $11.358 and 12.000. I am right now wondering if I could sell my coin for about the same price.
Mikhail K.
I’m not really disappointed because I bough the coin for $1.5 and I can probably still sell it on Ebay for profit.
You bought your coin for $ 1.5 and then you're wondering if you could sell it for $ 11.000 to $ 12.000, what do you really think yourself? And if you buy such an expensive coin for $ 1.5, is it that surprising it's a fake? Although you're still convinced it might be.
Well my goal was to buy some rare coins for the price of a peanut because it’s a flea market and a lot of cases are known where someone bought a random painting on a flea market and sold it for $50.000.
Though there is another coin I bought on this market and it is a GENUINE one! It’s a Chinese Soviet republic 1934 200 cash with retrograde 4. It costs about $500- $1300 but I bought it for $2
Though there is another coin I bought on this market and it is a GENUINE one! It’s a Chinese Soviet republic 1934 200 cash with retrograde 4. It costs about $500- $1300 but I bought it for $2
Though there is another coin I bought on this market and it is a GENUINE one! It’s a Chinese Soviet republic 1934 200 cash with retrograde 4. It costs about $500- $1300 but I bought it for $2
Though there is another coin I bought on this market and it is a GENUINE one! It’s a Chinese Soviet republic 1934 200 cash with retrograde 4. It costs about $500- $1300 but I bought it for $2
I will buy it from you and give you a 100% profit. How does that sounds?
$200, maybe $800? I know that if someone really wants to buy something from you that means that the thing you have is valuable and I’d better raise the price
