Nepal/Bhutan Copper Nuggets [gelöst]

During a recent trip to Nepal and Bhutan  I picked up a very mixed lot of “stuff” from a variety of sources. In aggregate that lot included 9 copper nuggets as shown in the photo. I’m told that this type of medium of exchange was once in use in Principalities  during the Mughal ascendency. Whether that use or some other, its interesting and I would like to know. However, given condition and possibly age, I can not discern any writing on the nuggets at all in order to validate a use or period.  I don’t have the equipment to do a thorough analysis.

Assuming, as I do, that the nuggets never had any writing or at best they have worn off, how should I list this,  as a curiosity? Exonumia?

Thanks,

Adron   
 

Some regions of the Subcontinent used lumps roughly equal to copper paise, so this may be that. It would go under “Proto-Coin” if that is the case but I cannot confirm. 

Thank you for that information. I will chase my nuggets down that trail. I would like to record these lumps somewhere if only for the informational record purposes. Conceptualy Proto coin works well for me. However I assume such an entry would have to label any coin related data as speculative.

Thanks again,

Adron

Best of luck on that. I have not found any sources when I looked before, but I hope you do. To be clear, I am not entirely sure thats what you have, but it is most likely. 

👍🙏

These are copper (and likely iron) paisas from nepal (Anonymous Issues from the Nepalese hills), and are not in the numista catalog (i have requested them to be added). They correspond to RGV 1350-1355, depending on wheight and if the are magnetic. based on the picture, i would guess they are “Lohiya Paisa” (magnetic), but you need a magnet to tell with certainty. If you don't the catalog, you cant get a PDF here (i have downloaded it, so, i can say that the link is safe ): https://dokumen.pub/the-coinage-of-nepal-from-the-earliest-times-until-1911-0901405272.html

Thank you for the advice. I have the reference work downloaded.I haven't had the time to read the relevant pages as yet. I will weigh the nuggets and check for magnetism later today.

Regards,

Adron

Just a belated followup note to say that 8 of the subject nuggets are magnetic and one is not. What does that mean in terms of potential identification for the non magnetic lump?

Well, whith these “coins” being just blank lumps of metal, the only way to know with certainty that they are from nepal is with a full providence, which impossible. But i can say all of them i your picture look similar to all others i have seen and own (in terms of shape). So i think it is safe to attribute them all to RGV 1350-1355. The only one that stands out to me is the one in the top right, sice it look almost “too” round, thouh i would still guess it is from nepal. As a second note, i would recommend that you look more carfullt on the sourface on each “coins”, since they are sometimes found with countermarks, or stamed with official dies, which sometiems barley vissable. And if you havn't seen, they have now been addad to the numista catalog:

N#466304

N#466307 

N#466308 

N#466314 

N#466315 

N#466316 

N#466330 

N#466325 

Thanks for the detailed information and references.  I should have mentioned that the round example is in fact the only non magnetic one in the lot.

I have reexamined the nugget edges and although I could discern something which might be considered marks, I suspect that is more likely wishful thinking on my part.  Given the amount of dirt, corrosion and encrustation,  these pieces probably require some sort of a reactive chemical bath in order to actually have a shot of viewing the original surface.

All coins with countermarks i have seen have it on the surface (see here for an example), and i highly doubt they would be stamped on the edge. And regarding the round one, how much does it weigh? If it doesn't fit in either 1, 2 or 4 paisa, it's proably safe to say that it's something else. And also, all of these i have seen have a fairly similar thickness, so you could compare it to others in the same wheight class (and/or tell me, so i can compare with mine).

The round nugget has a diameter of 2 mm, weight .6 oz (17ml) and a height of .5mm. I will send you the weights and height of the nuggets in the photo  below numbered 1 through 8 starting from the right.

All measurements are approximate. The old kitchen scale I am using provides numbers which if nothing else allows for comparisons within the group. 
Reference is made to my previous message. Nuggets 1-6 have very similar shapes which include indentations on two side. Nuggets 7 and 8 are roughly  square.

The measurements:

1. .7 oz (19ml), .5mm (h),

 2. .7oz (21ml),  .5mm (h),
3. .7oz (20ml),  .4mm (h),

4.  .7oz (20ml),  .4-.5 mm(h)  not uniform in height.

5.  .7oz (21ml), .6mm (h),

6. .7oz (20ml),  .5mm (h),

7.  .3oz (9)ml,   .4mm (h),

8.  .3oz (9)ml,  .5mm (h).

Regards, Adron

Well, as i said before, i'm confident regarding the attribution of the bottom 8, mainly based on the shape. As for the round one, it is imposible to say with certainty. While yes, it is much rounder than the others (both your's, mine and other's i have seen), it still have a weight and thickness fitting a denomination of 2 paisa. And also, while it is somewhat hard to see, it looks like from the picture like it has hammered edged, which fits with the rest. And asuming that it has the same provenance as the others, it seems likely that it also fits the attribution. If i where you, i would simply asume that it does and ad it to your collection, but with a note which says “has the correct weight, but is unusually round, attribution may be wrong”, or something simmilar.

👍🙏

Regards,

Adron

Coins 1-6 are 2 paisa, and 7 and 8 are 1 paisa. Even a bad kitchen scale can't get the weight wrong to such a degree that it would change.

Thank you.

One final question, the pictured item was acquired along with the copper nuggets. It appears to be a coin of some sort but is very small at 1mm in diameter.

There are markings on both sides as pictured below . To the extent it can be read, I 
am unable to do so.  Can anyone identify this as to type or function. What is it?

I'm far from sure, but a guess would be either RGV 1345 or 1348. Comparing the first picture with the obverse of this coin, they look fairly similar. Both have dots at the bottom, a uneven line in the middle and a "crescent" at the top, though they have a different style. And the reverse also has some (but less) similarities, in that they both have “crescents” and dots. They also have a simmilar diameter (and maybey Weight, but since you havn't provided the Weight on yours, it's impossible to say). RGV also notes “The legend is always very crudely engraved and often omits or distorts Ietters. so it is clear that the die engravers had no idea what they were engraving”, which may explain your very crude coin. But again, this is only a guess, and i'm probably wrong.