Good purchase?

Hello all, I have bought 2 new coins for purpose of grading and to hopefully be used for the coin business i want to start, the two coins are 

1 Penny - Milner and Thompson (Large Series -Christchurch) - New Zealand – Numista https://share.google/srUoSk3epgIWC0hey

Charles the 1st Irish farthing (1650s)

(Unknown variant for now)

I made offers for the both of them so got a really good deal compared to others I saw online.

My only question is if they'd grade well, the 1881 New Zealand 1 penny token, there's a decent amount online but most I see are not the same type as mine, I've seen about 3 maybe 4 of the same type but one was badly damaged and the other harshly cleaned and in alot worse condition than mine and for the farthing, the ones I saw online are besides one, worse condition than mine and with a over 100 euro price tag, i got mine for half that, it may have some environmental damage on one side (could also just be circulation) but the only 2 i saw graded also had environmental damages yet was listed for over 200 and I believe sold for that too.

Id love to hear some other opinions 

Thank you in advance 

Photos 

Awesome coins! I am unfortunately not going to be much help with the Irish farthing, but I can give a little info on the penny token. 
 

If you are interested in getting into Australian and New Zealand tradesman tokens, I would definitely recommend looking at the Renniks 1st edition ’Australian & New Zealand Token Values’. This is an absolute gold mine of information, with all of the known tokens listed in alphabetical order with full colour images, both Renniks & Andrews reference numbers, values, rarities, mints, and other details. Feel free to message for some more details about this book.

I would personally grade yours around the ‘fine’ range and it is a nice example as it is very common for these to be holed or extremely worn. You are also correct about the different types, there are actually a total of 9 different varieties!

If you are looking for an approximate value, the values listed in the aforementioned book — in Australian dollars — are as follows for your token: 

R372 A379, R1

VG: $20 F: $30 VF: $40 EF: $125 UNC: $275
‘Most Milner & Thompson tokens can be found in high grades. Full lustre Brilliant Uncirculated (BU) specimens are common.’

It is important to note that all 1800s Australian/ New Zealand trade token pennies are rare in comparison to regular circulation pennies produced from 1911 and 1940 onwards, respectively. There were hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of pennies produced for regular circulation in the 20th century, but these trade tokens that circulated in the mid-late-1800s were privately struck by the businesses for circulation due to coin shortages, so there were typically no more than a few thousand (or even a couple hundred) struck, depending on the token.

I have done a bit of research about your farthing, I think that that it is actually circa.1625-1644 instead of 1650s (Charles reigned from 1625-1649), and it appears to be the ‘Richmond issue’.
 

Here is the Numista link: 

N#33171

Have a read through this link here, this has some information about the mint marks and varieties for your farthing. It is going to be pretty tricky to identify the variety and mintmark from the photos so you may have a better chance with the coin in hand.

https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/07/10/obrien-coin-guide-the-richmond-patent-farthings-1625-34-2/

Let me know what you find and good luck!

IM94

Awesome coins! I am unfortunately not going to be much help with the Irish farthing, but I can give a little info on the penny token. 
 

If you are interested in getting into Australian and New Zealand tradesman tokens, I would definitely recommend looking at the Renniks 1st edition ’Australian & New Zealand Token Values’. This is an absolute gold mine of information, with all of the known tokens listed in alphabetical order with full colour images, both Renniks & Andrews reference numbers, values, rarities, mints, and other details. Feel free to message for some more details about this book.

I would personally grade yours around the ‘fine’ range and it is a nice example as it is very common for these to be holed or extremely worn. You are also correct about the different types, there are actually a total of 9 different varieties!

 

If you are looking for an approximate value, the values listed in the aforementioned book — in Australian dollars — are as follows for your token: 

R372 A379, R1

VG: $20 F: $30 VF: $40 EF: $125 UNC: $275
‘Most Milner & Thompson tokens can be found in high grades. Full lustre Brilliant Uncirculated (BU) specimens are common.’

 

It is important to note that all 1800s Australian/ New Zealand trade token pennies are rare in comparison to regular circulation pennies produced from 1911 and 1940 onwards, respectively. There were hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of pennies produced for regular circulation in the 20th century, but these trade tokens that circulated in the mid-late-1800s were privately struck by the businesses for circulation due to coin shortages, so there were typically no more than a few thousand (or even a couple hundred) struck, depending on the token.

Thank you for your recommendation, I would very much love to learn more about the Australian and New Zealand tokens.

I didnt realise it was common for them to be holded, honestly I didnt even realise there was tokens from that long ago for New Zealand, i always knew about Australia however but I really love the design of the New Zealand one.

9 different varieties makes it more intresting for me, id be nice if i could collect the whole set of them, I believe my one is decently rare, can find a very few on ebay but I find other varieties alot more than the one I have.

For the collectors note id say mine isnt damaged or anything, the details are there on some part of the coins but not all and it has gone darker over time but its a very nice piece overall, i got it for 45 US dollars which i see as a decent deal considering i couldn't find any in as good condition on ebay and the variety type was harder to find.

I love the fact that these were struck by businesses, kind of adds more story to them in a way. It's had indeed arrived by now and its actually alot bigger than i thought it was, i was assuming it would be the size of a British half penny but it was the size of a British penny so it was a surprise for me

Thank you very much for all the information on it, you have opened my eyes to this coin, thank you!

IM94

I have done a bit of research about your farthing, I think that that it is actually circa.1625-1644 instead of 1650s (Charles reigned from 1625-1649), and it appears to be the ‘Richmond issue’.
 

Here is the Numista link: 

 

N#33171

 

Have a read through this link here, this has some information about the mint marks and varieties for your farthing. It is going to be pretty tricky to identify the variety and mintmark from the photos so you may have a better chance with the coin in hand.

 

https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/07/10/obrien-coin-guide-the-richmond-patent-farthings-1625-34-2/

 

Let me know what you find and good luck!

Wow, thank you alot for this! I was honestly struggling with identifying which variant it was, im very glad is actually Irish and not one of the England ones I found, i really wanted an older Irish one to add to my collection.

Ill definitely do some more research with the coin in hand to find the mint mark, luckily the photos dont do it justice as its actually better condition in person, dont think its been cleaned at all either as its quite green like someone found it in the ground.

Ill definitely take a look at the link, thank you very much for finding this for me, i appreciate it very much! I may actually get this one graded, it would come back as environmental damaged, F-XF details, but ive seen a few online with the same grade for quite alot more than I paid, even checked the sold listing's on ebay and there was a good amount too, would definitely give me a decent profit if I decided to sell.

TheHistoryNerd

 

Thank you for your recommendation, I would very much love to learn more about the Australian and New Zealand tokens.

 

I didnt realise it was common for them to be holded, honestly I didnt even realise there was tokens from that long ago for New Zealand, i always knew about Australia however but I really love the design of the New Zealand one.

 

9 different varieties makes it more intresting for me, id be nice if i could collect the whole set of them, I believe my one is decently rare, can find a very few on ebay but I find other varieties alot more than the one I have.

 

For the collectors note id say mine isnt damaged or anything, the details are there on some part of the coins but not all and it has gone darker over time but its a very nice piece overall, i got it for 45 US dollars which i see as a decent deal considering i couldn't find any in as good condition on ebay and the variety type was harder to find.

 

I love the fact that these were struck by businesses, kind of adds more story to them in a way. It's had indeed arrived by now and its actually alot bigger than i thought it was, i was assuming it would be the size of a British half penny but it was the size of a British penny so it was a surprise for me

 

Thank you very much for all the information on it, you have opened my eyes to this coin, thank you!

They are quite interesting and a fun series to collect! My main collecting area of focus is actually on Victorian Gold Rush antiques, so naturally I have accumulated a number of these trade tokens. 
 

We had our gold rush in the early 1850s in Victoria (Australia) which brought thousands and thousands of people from all around the world in search of gold. From European settlement up until this point, Australia did not have its own coins until 1910 (!), and we relied on limited shipments of British coins, (the antipodes were very low on the priority list for coins in the British Empire), coins from around the world issued locally at inflated rates, and even rum as a type of currency. The gold rush led to coin shortages, so local merchants would produce their own tokens with their business on them for circulation. One of the more prominent ‘mints’ is Stokes, who struck tokens for many businesses. 
 

These tokens were technically illegal and not actually meant to have circulated, but the authorities turned a bit of blind eye and permitted them, as they didn’t have much choice as there was no specie to replace it.

New Zealand had their gold rush pretty much right after the Victorian Gold Rush and tokens were not outlawed here until a few years after Australia in 1863, so this is why you find the New Zealand tokens to be typically dated a bit later than the Australian ones.

I can send you photos of the different varieties if you are interested. 
—————

Just a quick edit because I forgot to mention one thing — you will likely find that the trade tokens will be harder to come by, more expensive, and less in demand in your corner of the world than in AU/NZ. Just something to keep in mind for your coin business — you will probably find most customers and sellers to be from either Australia or New Zealand.