Non-circulating legat tender Silver coins 1951-1990 [gelöst]

Hello to all, I would like to create a list of countries that issue non-circulating silver coins, which are also legal tender. Can you help me? :)

Silver

Billon

Australia currently has 2015 of them.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=australie&r=&st=3-47&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=&a=1951-2025&dg=&i=&b=&m=1&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&c=&wi=&sw=

brismike

Australia currently has 2015 of them.

 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=australie&r=&st=3-47&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=&a=1951-2025&dg=&i=&b=&m=1&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&c=&wi=&sw=

Actually 31. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=australie&r=&st=3&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=&a=1951-1990&dg=&i=&b=&m=1&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&c=&wi=&sw=

They are all legal tender?

Apologies I did a search from 1951 to 2025 by mistake. 

1951 to 1990 is 31 as posted by rsirian1

Since then the number of NCLT Silver coins has exploded.

Regards Mike

DrInfinite-7.8.2

They are all legal tender?

I don't think states ever issue coins that are not legal tender in some way or other. In the case of NCLTs, the legal tender status is a technicality, but it is a form of legal tender, though the banks or shopkeepers are not obliged to receive them for deposit or in payment. Some countries issue commem silver coins as full legal tender, but then demonetize them within days or weeks, so here too the legal tender status is a technicality.

If anyone knows of any coins issued by or for a state that are not legal tender at the time of issue, I'd be interested to know.

Camerinvs

DrInfinite-7.8.2

They are all legal tender?

I don't think states ever issue coins that are not legal tender in some way or other. In the case of NCLTs, the legal tender status is a technicality, but it is a form of legal tender, though the banks or shopkeepers are not obliged to receive them for deposit or in payment. Some countries issue commem silver coins as full legal tender, but then demonetize them within days or weeks, so here too the legal tender status is a technicality.

 

If anyone knows of any coins issued by or for a state that are not legal tender at the time of issue, I'd be interested to know.

For exaple, Norway 1964 10 Kr

This one: 10 Kr Constitution 1964? It's non-circulating, but how do you know it's not legal tender?

Why does this coin have edge position A and B variants? Especially if it was rushed like stated in the comments I can't believe that it was hand placed with a fixed orientation.

Camerinvs

This one: 10 Kr Constitution 1964? It's non-circulating, but how do you know it's not legal tender?

Sorry, my mistake - yes, it's NCLT. I think you said about the NCLT coin. Regarding your question, for example, the 2021 Niue 2 dollars. Why is it not legal tender? Because on the coin you can see а 999 silver sample

Idolenz

Why does this coin have edge position A and B variants? Especially if it was rushed like stated in the comments I can't believe that it was hand placed with a fixed orientation.

I also can't believe this is a Non-circulating coin. Mintage is 1 million+

DrInfinite-7.8.2

Camerinvs

This one: 10 Kr Constitution 1964? It's non-circulating, but how do you know it's not legal tender?

 Regarding your question, for example, the 2021 Niue 2 dollars. Why is it not legal tender? 

This should answer your question about Niue.  Niue has gone over twice the KM numbers as Austria [solved] – Numista

rsirian1

DrInfinite-7.8.2

Camerinvs

This one: 10 Kr Constitution 1964? It's non-circulating, but how do you know it's not legal tender?

 Regarding your question, for example, the 2021 Niue 2 dollars. Why is it not legal tender? 

This should answer your question about Niue.  Niue has gone over twice the KM numbers as Austria [solved] – Numista

If a coin is marked with a silver fineness (999 or 925), it is a priori considered an investment coin and, accordingly, not a legal tender

DrInfinite-7.8.2

 

If a coin is marked with a silver fineness (999 or 925), it is a priori considered an investment coin and, accordingly, not a legal tender

Niue coins are not considered legal tender by Numista regardless of composition. It has nothing to do with being marked with fineness.

DrInfinite-7.8.2

Idolenz

Why does this coin have edge position A and B variants? Especially if it was rushed like stated in the comments I can't believe that it was hand placed with a fixed orientation.

I also can't believe this is a Non-circulating coin. Mintage is 1 million+

What is your problem with this coin? You consistently make up your own answers regarding its circulation just because there were a million minted? An answer was already supplied to you in a previous post; 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic166806.html#p1281386

but some how you don’t believe it? And you continuously bring it back up, mentioning it in other posts. The coin

N#24336

is a non-circulating commemorative coin, it would have been sold through the Norwegian government, their mint, banks and post offices (maybe even through postal order catalogue), it did not circulate - there were 285 million 10 Kronor notes that circulated by 1964 and millions more afterwards.

King

DrInfinite-7.8.2

Idolenz

Why does this coin have edge position A and B variants? Especially if it was rushed like stated in the comments I can't believe that it was hand placed with a fixed orientation.

I also can't believe this is a Non-circulating coin. Mintage is 1 million+

What is your problem with this coin? You consistently make up your own answers regarding its circulation just because there were a million minted? An answer was already supplied to you in a previous post; 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic166806.html#p1281386

but some how you don’t believe it? And you continuously bring it back up, mentioning it in other posts. The coin

N#24336

is a non-circulating commemorative coin, it would have been sold through the Norwegian government, their mint, banks and post offices (maybe even through postal order catalogue), it did not circulate - there were 285 million 10 Kronor notes that circulated by 1964 and millions more afterwards.

Because, this coin is my father's a last gift

DrInfinite-7.8.2

King

DrInfinite-7.8.2

Idolenz

Why does this coin have edge position A and B variants? Especially if it was rushed like stated in the comments I can't believe that it was hand placed with a fixed orientation.

I also can't believe this is a Non-circulating coin. Mintage is 1 million+

What is your problem with this coin? You consistently make up your own answers regarding its circulation just because there were a million minted? An answer was already supplied to you in a previous post; 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic166806.html#p1281386

but some how you don’t believe it? And you continuously bring it back up, mentioning it in other posts. The coin

N#24336

is a non-circulating commemorative coin, it would have been sold through the Norwegian government, their mint, banks and post offices (maybe even through postal order catalogue), it did not circulate - there were 285 million 10 Kronor notes that circulated by 1964 and millions more afterwards.

Because, this coin is my father's a last gift

And what a nice coin it is, I have one also - but it wasn’t a circulating coin, it is still a coin, was legal tender, and is worth more in silver than the 10 Kronor face value.

King

DrInfinite-7.8.2

King

DrInfinite-7.8.2

Idolenz

Why does this coin have edge position A and B variants? Especially if it was rushed like stated in the comments I can't believe that it was hand placed with a fixed orientation.

I also can't believe this is a Non-circulating coin. Mintage is 1 million+

What is your problem with this coin? You consistently make up your own answers regarding its circulation just because there were a million minted? An answer was already supplied to you in a previous post; 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic166806.html#p1281386

but some how you don’t believe it? And you continuously bring it back up, mentioning it in other posts. The coin

N#24336

is a non-circulating commemorative coin, it would have been sold through the Norwegian government, their mint, banks and post offices (maybe even through postal order catalogue), it did not circulate - there were 285 million 10 Kronor notes that circulated by 1964 and millions more afterwards.

Because, this coin is my father's a last gift

And what a nice coin it is, I have one also - but it wasn’t a circulating coin, it is still a coin, was legal tender, and is worth more in silver than the 10 Kronor face value.

All right, thank you

King

DrInfinite-7.8.2

King

DrInfinite-7.8.2

Idolenz

Why does this coin have edge position A and B variants? Especially if it was rushed like stated in the comments I can't believe that it was hand placed with a fixed orientation.

I also can't believe this is a Non-circulating coin. Mintage is 1 million+

What is your problem with this coin? You consistently make up your own answers regarding its circulation just because there were a million minted? An answer was already supplied to you in a previous post; 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic166806.html#p1281386

but some how you don’t believe it? And you continuously bring it back up, mentioning it in other posts. The coin

N#24336

is a non-circulating commemorative coin, it would have been sold through the Norwegian government, their mint, banks and post offices (maybe even through postal order catalogue), it did not circulate - there were 285 million 10 Kronor notes that circulated by 1964 and millions more afterwards.

Because, this coin is my father's a last gift

And what a nice coin it is, I have one also - but it wasn’t a circulating coin, it is still a coin, was legal tender, and is worth more in silver than the 10 Kronor face value.

And my last question - how to separate NCLT Silver coins with Bullion coins and “bubblegum” coins

DrInfinite-7.8.2

 

And my last question - how to separate NCLT Silver coins with Bullion coins and “bubblegum” coins

You can separate them any way you want but if you want Numista to do so first you'll need definitions that every one (at least the Numista Team) will agree on and that will never happen in my opinion.  Did you read the post on Niue I suggested?

rsirian1

DrInfinite-7.8.2

 

And my last question - how to separate NCLT Silver coins with Bullion coins and “bubblegum” coins

You can separate them any way you want but if you want Numista to do so first you'll need definitions that every one (at least the Numista Team) will agree on and that will never happen in my opinion.  Did you read the post on Niue I suggested?

In my opinion (this may be incorrect), if a coin has a silver fineness and weight, like the Niue, it's a bullion coin. Similarly, a coin worth $1 US is worth a premium, but its weight and price are significantly higher, for example, the 2015 Azerbaijani 5 manat. 5 manat is worth $3 US, but 1 ounce of silver can't be worth that much. Therefore, it's an investment bullion coin.

N#11588

N#16466

rsirian1

N#11588

 

N#16466

 

 

After 1940's

 

And my last question - how to separate NCLT Silver coins with Bullion coins and “bubblegum” coins

Well one of the easiest ways is to view the coin in context (this will not guarantee an exact match 100% of the time) but it will be almost right and if there is ambiguity you will have to do more research or just trust what Numista has them down as.

NCLT is something that has to be assigned by a bank or government, with a guarantee of the face value at a government bank or with debt payment for example. These will always be listed via the countries bank, will sometimes be a size or shape different to standard circulation coins and possibly be equivalent value to circulation notes. Much like non circulation commemorative coins but slightly out of the rehlms of the normal currency so has been designated as (LT) legal tender to clarify the situation. For example the UKs Shilling sized coins, now valued at 25p or £5 depending on when they were minted and how and why they were classified as such.

Bullion coins are minted for their metal value, despite the value written on them, for collectors who want to invest in precious metals (that is why they have high .999 pure as the fineness) - as an investor you are speculating on the metal price and no one has to accept them as legal tender. But this is not to say that these coins couldn’t be both, it would just take classification of the coin by the country or bank.

And finally the context being that NCLT and bullion coins are modern inventions, so the older the coin the more likely it will be either circulating or non circulating commemorative, the more modern the coin the more choices you have but if they are a random series not connected with commemorative or of current events relative to the issuing country, the more likely they will be just bullion coins or NCLT.  

DrInfinite-7.8.2

rsirian1

N#11588

 

N#16466

 

 

After 1940's

N#13985

N#11552

Care to change your start date or your definition?

King

 

And my last question - how to separate NCLT Silver coins with Bullion coins and “bubblegum” coins

Well one of the easiest ways is to view the coin in context (this will not guarantee an exact match 100% of the time) but it will be almost right and if there is ambiguity you will have to do more research or just trust what Numista has them down as.

 

NCLT is something that has to be assigned by a bank or government, with a guarantee of the face value at a government bank or with debt payment for example. These will always be listed via the countries bank, will sometimes be a size or shape different to standard circulation coins and possibly be equivalent value to circulation notes. Much like non circulation commemorative coins but slightly out of the rehlms of the normal currency so has been designated as (LT) legal tender to clarify the situation. For example the UKs Shilling sized coins, now valued at 25p or £5 depending on when they were minted and how and why they were classified as such.

 

Bullion coins are minted for their metal value, despite the value written on them, for collectors who want to invest in precious metals (that is why they have high .999 pure as the fineness) - as an investor you are speculating on the metal price and no one has to accept them as legal tender. But this is not to say that these coins couldn’t be both, it would just take classification of the coin by the country or bank.

 

And finally the context being that NCLT and bullion coins are modern inventions, so the older the coin the more likely it will be either circulating or non circulating commemorative, the more modern the coin the more choices you have but if they are a random series not connected with commemorative or of current events relative to the issuing country, the more likely they will be just bullion coins or NCLT.  

For example, if we take Afghanistan, 500 Afghanis, is it bullion or NCLT?

DrInfinite-7.8.2

rsirian1

DrInfinite-7.8.2

 

And my last question - how to separate NCLT Silver coins with Bullion coins and “bubblegum” coins

You can separate them any way you want but if you want Numista to do so first you'll need definitions that every one (at least the Numista Team) will agree on and that will never happen in my opinion.  Did you read the post on Niue I suggested?

In my opinion (this may be incorrect), if a coin has a silver fineness and weight, like the Niue, it's a bullion coin. Similarly, a coin worth $1 US is worth a premium, but its weight and price are significantly higher, for example, the 2015 Azerbaijani 5 manat. 5 manat is worth $3 US, but 1 ounce of silver can't be worth that much. Therefore, it's an investment bullion coin.

Yes I think your opinion on the 5 Manat coin is incorrect. From a Quick Look at the coin page and the Azerbaijani currency as a whole, this coin is exactly what Numista has it down as, a Non circulating coin - it doesn’t circulate because it is too high value and you have notes in this value. It commemorates the railway project of the country and was presumably commissioned therefore by Azerbaijani bank or government, and so is legally worth 5 Manat (which the government or bank guarantees) the fact that it was minted in .999 silver means nothing, when the silver price falls below the 5 Manat value the coin will still be worth 5 Manats unlike a bullion coin which would be worth the low silver price because it is not legal tender (currency).

If you check silver value for 2015 and the exchange rate I suspect that it falls closer to the 5 Manat value, or will be 2 or 3 times higher - so they were probably sold at 10 or 20 Manat or given away as gifts to people connected with the project with the guarantee that they would always be worth 5 Manat if the silver price fell.

King

DrInfinite-7.8.2

rsirian1

DrInfinite-7.8.2

 

And my last question - how to separate NCLT Silver coins with Bullion coins and “bubblegum” coins

You can separate them any way you want but if you want Numista to do so first you'll need definitions that every one (at least the Numista Team) will agree on and that will never happen in my opinion.  Did you read the post on Niue I suggested?

In my opinion (this may be incorrect), if a coin has a silver fineness and weight, like the Niue, it's a bullion coin. Similarly, a coin worth $1 US is worth a premium, but its weight and price are significantly higher, for example, the 2015 Azerbaijani 5 manat. 5 manat is worth $3 US, but 1 ounce of silver can't be worth that much. Therefore, it's an investment bullion coin.

Yes I think your opinion on the 5 Manat coin is incorrect. From a Quick Look at the coin page and the Azerbaijani currency as a whole, this coin is exactly what Numista has it down as, a Non circulating coin - it doesn’t circulate because it is too high value and you have notes in this value. It commemorates the railway project of the country and was presumably commissioned therefore by Azerbaijani bank or government, and so is legally worth 5 Manat (which the government or bank guarantees) the fact that it was minted in .999 silver means nothing, when the silver price falls below the 5 Manat value the coin will still be worth 5 Manats unlike a bullion coin which would be worth the low silver price because it is not legal tender (currency).

 

If you check silver value for 2015 and the exchange rate I suspect that it falls closer to the 5 Manat value, or will be 2 or 3 times higher - so they were probably sold at 10 or 20 Manat or given away as gifts to people connected with the project with the guarantee that they would always be worth 5 Manat if the silver price fell.

My mistake, but our banks sell it for 35$

For example, if we take Afghanistan, 500 Afghanis, is it bullion or NCLT?

Context, at the time of issue, who issued them? Were they guaranteed by the Afghan government or Bank? I would guess yes which would make them Non circulation coins, not NCLT because why would the Afghan government need to categorise them as such because they already guaranteed the value through being in their current currency.

Now it might be different, they might an old currency not guaranteed by the Taliban at any exchange so they are only worth silver price - but this doesn’t make them bullion coins in classification because they weren’t originally minted as such.

Hope this helps.

King

 

For example, if we take Afghanistan, 500 Afghanis, is it bullion or NCLT?

Context, at the time of issue, who issued them? Were they guaranteed by the Afghan government or Bank? I would guess yes which would make them Non circulation coins, not NCLT because why would the Afghan government need to categorise them as such because they already guaranteed the value through being in their current currency.

 

Now it might be different, they might an old currency not guaranteed by the Taliban at any exchange so they are only worth silver price - but this doesn’t make them bullion coins in classification because they weren’t originally minted as such.

 

Hope this helps.

Yes, thanks. And 500 afghanis is NCLT before Taliban (if we say about 1981-1990), right?

I would just like to add that the question whether a coin is bullion or legal tender is a false dichotomy. It's kind of like asking whether an orange is a fruit or a part of a plant.

So far as I can tell, all bullion coins issued by states are legal tender, though it's usualy for a face value well below the bullion value. So the Canadian 1oz Maple Leaf has a face value of $5 and therefore is legal tender for $5. One would be bloody ignorant on December 26th to go to Subway and spend his Christmas Silver ML gift on some Holiday-fest foot-long special sub for $5, but if the employee is willing to take it, it's a deal. (BTW I always take the foot-long — I need those extra veggies.)

In other words, states (via their Mint or national Bank) add a minimal face value to their bullion coins in order to give them the status of legal tender issues.

If anyone knows of a state- or national mint-issued bullion without any face value, I'd be interested to know. In fact, I suspect there are some of these out there. I just haven't looked for them yet.

EDIT — 

Apologies for using again the Canadian example, which I know best, but it is quite similar to what one finds elsewhere around the globe. Here is an interesting RCM page about bullion. Note what they say about bullion coins:

Coins are the most convenient way to buy and sell precious metals. Our coins are legal tender and come in many sizes, ranging from one twentieth of a troy ounce (t oz.) to multiple ounces of pure precious metal.

and bullion bars:

Bars, like coins, can be purchased in a variety of sizes, usually up to one kilogram (32.15 t oz.) in weight. Some are even larger—as much as 400 t oz.—but these are traded mostly by central banks and institutional investors. Unlike coins, bars are not considered legal tender.

EDIT 2 — 

The Royal Mint has, among other products, 1oz gold bullion coins with a face value of £100, and therefore are legal tender:

Exempt from UK capital gains tax for UK residents, due to being legal tender

And even better on this page:

Can I spend/pay using my bullion coins?

All UK coins, whether circulating or non-circulating, are authorised as “legal tender” by Royal Proclamation, in accordance with the Coinage Act of 1971.

Legal tender allows UK coins to be accepted for payment of debts in court – but, only circulating legal tender coins are designed to be spent and traded at businesses and banks. The Royal Mint creates commemorative and bullion coin series to celebrate key moments or individuals, and these are treasured for their collectable and aesthetic value, or purchased for investment opportunities. However, these non-circulating, commemorative and bullion coins are limited edition and will not enter general circulation – meaning banks and businesses are not required to accept them.

For more information on legal tender guidelines see: www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines

And based on this page, at the bottom, it's clear enough that RM bars are not legal tender:

If you are also interested in CGT exempt bullion products, our range of Sovereign, gold Britannia and gold Queen’s Beasts Bullion coins are both VAT free and CGT (UK capital gains tax) exempt due to their status as legal tender.

Bars are not exempted to the same extent (some exemptions apply in the UK only).

I checked the Royal Australian Mint and South African Mint sites as well, but they are not very clear at all about legal tender status of bullion coins and bars.