Swap questions from a beginner

Greetings
I have been collecting for years and with this site I have been able to organize a bit more and learned I have some duplicates and many coins I still want to acquire. I haven't listed any coin to swap yet since I am still learning how everything works.

1) If I want to initiate a swap, I want to offer similar value. Unfortunately I do not know the value of many coins that I do not have (or the value of what I have to offer). I do not want to make an offer that is offensively unbalanced. Is there some ranking system I can use?
2) Can I search for someone else's wish-list to see if anyone wants a specific coin that I have? I could then look at those swap lists to see if they have something that I want if I knew who wants what I have.
3) I am lucky enough to have some coin stores in my area that have "treasure boxes" of lower value foreign coins to pick through. These are usually common base metal coins, but have helped me build my list of countries. I was thinking that what is common for me may be uncommon for someone across the world. Is there a way to list countries that I want (not just specific individual coins) and see if I can come across countries that someone else wants? Maybe a new collector needs what I can buy for almost nothing and I could help them build their collection?

Thank you for your assistance!

Good questions. I'm new here too and picking through the catalog is very time consuming.
What if the coin you have isn't listed? How do you get it listed as one you own?

Hi Pott,

1) Every swap is different. Some people swap by value, others swap coin for coin. Generally I think people look for a combination of the two. Make sure you negotiate. Never accept a swap that you are not comfortable with. I generally use NGC for a rough idea on older coins. Also note that silver & gold coins will generally require silver or gold in return.
2) No - I wish we could.
3) You can list them on your profile under "What he/she wants". Most people will always check your profile before initiating / accepting a swap.

Hi Boppy,

Go to the coin listing for the country in question. At the bottom, there is a link to add a coin. Follow the instructions. Also check out the Numisdoc tab which contains links to documents that will help you.
Going through the catalog will get easier. I use the Advanced Search option regularly. If you still cannot id a coin or you cannot find it, list the coin on the forum under "Coin identifications and valuations". There are many people who will gladly help you. Make sure to include a picture of both sides of the coin and also list the diameter and weight (if possible).

Have you looked at Numisdoc. There is a lot of good information in there. On add a coin ,or a year. How to use the search . And how to start a swap. But using the form a lot is the best way for us to get to know you. There is everything here,people who only collect pre 1700's to people like me. I collect everything but mainly new ,and love low value coins. Iam a penny nut, But if you have a coin or year I would post it and ask if it in catalog first. And there are a lot of good people here that will help you. On swaps take your time,remember this is a hobby not a job. yours daryl

When you work two jobs like I do one likes to make every free minute count.
This process seems a bit cumbersome.
Am I the only person who feels this way?

You might find this link helpful in valuing world coins. It really doesn't matter which catalog you use as long as it's the same for both members but this is the most commonly used. Be wary of the sharks who will use different catalogs to value each half of a swap, there is often a quite substantial difference between sources and the unscrupulous will try to take advantage of this gap.

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/

If you want to start swapping, first of all you have to start adding coins to your swap list. The bigger your swap list is, the more chance people will want to swap with you. If you have a decent swap list, people will find you. And if they don't, post on the forum you want to swap and you will get attention and people will look at your list.

Of course, swapping must be a win - win situation. Every swap should be as balanced as possible so both parties are satisfied. That's not always easy, certainly not for beginners, if you know to little about prices. Together with adding my collection to the Numista database, I create an excel file like this:



Land = country
St. = amount of doubles for that specific coin
Valuta = denomination
Jaar = year (year in red means the condition is not good enough and I like to replace it)
R = edge letter orientation (position A or B)
Opmerking = extra remarks (mostly when there are different coins or varieties of the same year)
KM Nr. = KM# number
BEF = the price I paid for that coin (in Belgian francs)

So in your case the last column is very important. This is often far from catalog price, but at least you know what you have paid for every coin. That is what I use as basis for my swaps: if I bought them cheap I can swap them cheap, regardless the prices in catalogs or the NGC website or ebay sites (where you often find ridiculous prices). Of course, this is only your part of the swap. Knowing the prices of the coins you want is much more difficult. A very good advice of Spookie: "never accept a swap that you are not comfortable with". So use your common sense: if you notice people ask much more for their coins (because NGC or eBay say so) than you know you can buy them for (in those "treasure boxes" for instance), you also ask for your coins what NGC or eBay say in stead of what you paid for it.

Good luck and have fun with swapping.

Also, when swapping don't forget to ask for pictures or scans of the actual coins. Sometimes there is a little confusion in the grading, tone etc.

I like the spreadsheet. I'm going to be working on that later.

Cheers and happy swapping,

Verweis : "boppy"​Good questions. I'm new here too and picking through the catalog is very time consuming.
​What if the coin you have isn't listed? How do you get it listed as one you own?

​I am a relative Newcomer too and YES, it is time consuming. But, if your experience is anything like mine, you will get faster (I'm still working on better) and your own collection will be infinitely easier to manage. Just take your time and find your own comfort level.

Welcome to Numista!!!

Hi, and welcome! I am new too. I've done about half a dozen swaps so far, and here are a few tips I've learned from more experienced members:

I use the NGC website that Phil linked to for calculating catalog values. I like to put the value in the comments field so I remember, and for coins for exchange I put the grade and the value - e.g., VF ($2). If the value is less than $1 I don't bother recording it.

If my coin is a lower grade than NGC has values for, I cut the value in half for each step down in grade. That seems to be the general rule of thumb.

When swapping, I am pretty much happy to swap coins one for one if they are all low value (less than $1), but for higher value coins I like to have the value balanced by a similar coin, or multiple low value coins (e.g., 4 low value coins to balance a $1 coin). I don't get too stingy and picky about this - it is supposed to be a friendly swap, not a loan application - but a swap should be balanced within a buck or so I would say. Whatever both parties are happy with is what counts.

When someone requests coins in a swap, I add "RESERVED" to the comments field for those coins, so that others will see that and hopefully won't request them and I have to deny them.

It is up to you whether you want to require silver for silver, or just match value, like a junk silver coin whose melt value balances an older base metal coin with high numismatic value. Some people also say "old coins for old coins", etc. Whatever you are comfortable with.

Have fun! This website has really sent me down a rabbit hole of interest in older world coins. It's a great resource and the swapping part is a fun and inexpensive way to acquire new coins, too.

That's the same system I use Jesse. It might seem time consuming to enter the grade and value for every coin (because it is!) but I've found it much easier to let new coins build up until I have a worthwhile amount and then entering them all at once. It's certainly more efficient than trying to do it in the middle of a swap and it avoids people looking for "cheap and cheerful" from wasting time picking $100 coins.

There is some thought being given by Dear Leader to a suggestion made by Imreh to include a value field for each coin. I hope this information will be carried over into the swap engine as it would make life a whole lot easier by removing the need to add it to the comments field. That would be my main wish for 2016.

"it is supposed to be a friendly swap, not a loan application" Yes, exactly my sentiments and perfectly stated.

Jesse11, what you do is pretty much what I do, except for coins under $1. I still indicate the value for those. What I also stick to is the minimum value of $0.10 for very low value coins, but rarely will do $0.05 for pennies, etc.

With regards to the difference, 10-15% is usually what I accept for swaps not including valuable coins ($10+).

One word of caution for you with regards to taking 1/2 when NGC value is not present - make sure you don't go below official exchange rate for current coins (happened to me a few times).

I'm sure we'll have a super easy swap if we ever get to doing one.

Verweis : "smoked_caramel"​
​I'm sure we'll have a super easy swap if we ever get to doing one.

​Yes, it really does make the swap flow when all the information is already on the swap page. Even if it's not 100% accurate at least I have a ballpark estimate of the grade. It's like pulling teeth if you are looking to find a coin in EF and the other guy has a worm out AG coin but doesn't want to say so. By the time I've gone through that process a half dozen times and what looked like a promising swap is evaporating like a snowman in March I'm about ready to pull the plug.

Thank you all for your advice. I do want to start swapping because there are so many beautiful coins that I want, and hopefully some of my duplicates will please someone else.
I have more questions about swapping. Should I re-post these questions in a new thread so this one doesn't become unwieldy?

Am I allowed to make one profile of my own collection and one profile just for swapping? The reason I am considering this is because anything that I would want to swap would only be duplicates. Wouldn't the following be confusing:

If I mark a coin for exchange, how would the other person know if I want to exchange the uncirculated one or the other grade one?
I add comments about some of my coins to remind myself about different things. These comments refer to my coin, not the hope-to-swap coin. Wouldn't that be confusing to other people? Can I separate comments and only show the relevant ones?
I don't know how to grade coins, so unless the person I received it from graded it, or it is still uncirculated and in it's original packaging, everything I have is default-listed as "VG". Unless you are an expert, grading is somewhat subjective anyways. I figure if anyone wants to trade they can ask for a picture and decide for themselves. Is there a better way?

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions.

I'm pretty sure you're only allowed one profile.

When you enter in coins, the ones with grades are for your own collection. All the coins you have for exchange are in the Exc boxes. What I do is enter the grade (and value) for swap coins in the comments field. Sometimes I use the comments field for my own coins as well, but if I have a coin to swap for that year I will make sure the comments refer only to the swap coin.

Learning to grade coins isn't that difficult, at least the broad categories of VG/F/VG/XF. It is a lifetime learning process, I am told, but I have only been seriously into this hobby for a few months and I am mostly comfortable with grading a coin into these general categories. Grading is subjective, even for the experts!

I agree that if the grade is critical to someone they should ask for a photo, but I think it is good to offer your estimate of a grade. If someone is looking to upgrade a coin to an XF specimen, it helps save a lot of time if you note in the comments that your coin is only VG. And when trying to balance the value of a swap, it's good to know what grades are involved.

Verweis : "Essor Prof"​BEF = the price I paid for that coin (in Belgian francs)

​Wow! Are you still counting in Belgian francs? That is actually amazing!

I started collecting around 1970, far before the entrance of the euro and before the computer era. After a few years I started to keep file cards with the prices I paid for my coins. With the introduction of the euro I had the choice to still write down the prices in Belgian francs or to change all those previous written ten thousands of coins prices from Belgian francs to euros. I chose the first option.
I only started putting my coins on the computer and making my own excel files when I discovered Numista last year. That is a tremendous job, so I chose again to just take over those Belgian prices from the file cards in stead of losing a lot of extra time to convert these prices into euros.

Verweis : "Essor Prof"​I started collecting around 1970, far before the entrance of the euro and before the computer era. After a few years I started to keep file cards with the prices I paid for my coins. With the introduction of the euro I had the choice to still write down the prices in Belgian francs or to change all those previous written ten thousands of coins prices from Belgian francs to euros. I chose the first option.
​I only started putting my coins on the computer and making my own excel files when I discovered Numista last year. That is a tremendous job, so I chose again to just take over those Belgian prices from the file cards in stead of losing a lot of extra time to convert these prices into euros.
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​I can understand that. I wouldn't either convert the old prices into euros, but I would probably write the new ones in euros. Then I would also add a footnote with the exchange rate. I mean, isn't it time consuming to convert the euro prices to BEF? Or maybe you were lucky with an easy exchange rate? (Note: I'm terrible at math )
I was just amazed and I find it awesome that the BEF is still alive! ..somewhat..

But are all those values still valid after such a long time (in the case of 1970 it's nearly 50 years ), at least some should have changed over time?

When I buy smth. expensive I still sometimes convert the price from € in DM ( 1 : ~2, so it's quite easy)

Verweis : "Essor Prof"​I started collecting around 1970, far before the entrance of the euro and before the computer era. After a few years I started to keep file cards with the prices I paid for my coins. With the introduction of the euro I had the choice to still write down the prices in Belgian francs or to change all those previous written ten thousands of coins prices from Belgian francs to euros. I chose the first option.
​I only started putting my coins on the computer and making my own excel files when I discovered Numista last year. That is a tremendous job, so I chose again to just take over those Belgian prices from the file cards in stead of losing a lot of extra time to convert these prices into euros.
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​Once you have it all in your spreadsheet it is just a small calculation to convert all to Euro one column over and you can keep both columns, the one with BEF and the one with Euro for comparison. You can also do a USD conversion so you know the trade value with members all around the world. I have to do some more work on my spreadsheet and you guys just reminded me of it (sigh).

Verweis : "ngdawa"I wouldn't either convert the old prices into euros, but I would probably write the new ones in euros. Then I would also add a footnote with the exchange rate. I mean, isn't it time consuming to convert the euro prices to BEF? Or maybe you were lucky with an easy exchange rate?

Putting prices in two different currencies (some in Belgian francs, others in euros) can be confusing, so it's better to stick to one currency.
Converting euro's to BEF isn't time consuming. I'm lucky with the exchange rate (1 euro = 40,3399 BEF, so rounded to 1 euro = 40 BEF gives only a very small difference). And I have an excel file with the conversion from euros to BEF to check for uncommon prices.
Besides, I'm from the generation where counting by heart still was rammed in our heads. I still know the multiplication tables very well.

Verweis : "Idolenz"But are all those values still valid after such a long time (in the case of 1970 it's nearly 50 years ), at least some should have changed over time?

Yes, that's right, not all prices are accurate anymore. But for low value coins the difference is very little. And I still have a good memory (at least for coins, not for names anymore), so for the high value coins I still often know in which time period I bought them. And it's not important if you're wrong about that for a few years. Prices don't change that much in a few years (unless there's is a very significant fall or rise for silver or gold prices).
Over a longer period prices can of course change much more. I bought the Caribbean 4 dollars 1970 FAO series (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces4282.html) in the early 80's for 5.5 € a piece. Now they cost somewhere between 15 to 20 € and on eBay even much much more.

Verweis : "Carlos55"Once you have it all in your spreadsheet it is just a small calculation to convert all to Euro one column over and you can keep both columns, the one with BEF and the one with Euro for comparison. You can also do a USD conversion so you know the trade value with members all around the world.

Hi Carlos, now comes the difference between theory and practice:



How will the conversion look like after "just a small calculation" when there are multiple prices in one cell because you paid different prices for the same coin?

Second problem: the prices in BEF are rounded to 5 BEF. But a rounding in Belgian francs is not the same as a rounding in euros (for instance 125 BEF = 3,125 euro but then you already have three digits after the comma). Of course, you can fix that but in stead of "just a small calculation" it becomes a complex calculation.

Third problem. Of course you put as much information on a spreadsheet as you want, but the width of a spreadsheet is limited. Look at the difference in width between BEF prices and euro prices:



The width is almost double. I always have barely enough space for my spreadsheet, so prices in euro isn't really an option. And extra columns for prices in BEF, euro and dollar certainly isn't (but again I'm lucky, euro and dollar have almost the same value, 1 $ = 0.9 €)).

Fourth (minor) problem. Look at the previous picture. With all those commas and hyphens prices in euro really look complex and crappy.

Conclusion: thank you very much for your suggestion Carlos, but as you see, theory and practice are two different things, and I don't mind being stuck with prices in BEF. And after all this time, the conversion happens in my head almost automatically and very quickly.