Oriental coins...struggling to know what is what? Help please.

Apologies first for some of the pictures lighting, I haven't quite got the knack of lighting a coin correctly. Any advice on that matter would be accepted. Apologies also for angle and lettering possibly being upside down and I think there are some duplicates but I wanted to be sure.

I bought these coins and know nothing about them...any knowledge would be helpful. I also would like to know if they have any value:

These are Chinese Empire Cash, probably very old, coins.

Try the website "worldcoingallery.com" and choose China. There you'll find a definition of those coins.

Greetings Tony

Hello,

It seems they all are Chinese cash. More information can be found on Numisdoc: https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/china-23.html

Can you please edit your post and number the coins, so it's easier to answer? Also, if you manage to get higher resolution, that would help a lot.
1. No idea. Might be not Chinese
2. Qianlong emperor (乾隆), 1735-1796
3. Qianlong emperor (乾隆), 1735-1796
4. Very strange coin. Letters are not well designed
5. Qianlong emperor (乾隆), 1735-1796
6. Daoguang (道光), 1820-1850. Not sure because of the poor quality of the photo.
7. Same lettering as coin #1.
8. I can't read the characters because of the poor quality of the photo.
9. Qianlong emperor (乾隆), 1735-1796. Strange lettering.
10. Kangxi emperor (康熙), 1661-1722
11. Guangxu emperor (光緒), 1875-1908
12. Qianlong emperor (乾隆), 1735-1796. Strange rim.
13. Qianlong emperor (乾隆), 1735-1796
14. Xianfeng emperor (咸豐), 1850-1861
15. Qianlong emperor (乾隆), 1735-1796

Some of your coins have strange lettering. A recent post on French forum (https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic4848.html) says that this kind of coins can be ancient fake coins, which were made by Indonesian people with the intention to use them. People of this area also used Chinese cash, but the forgers didn't know Chinese. So Chinese characters on these fake coins are misshapen.

Right now I  can tell you that as a general guide the side with four characters is the side that will tell you the period/date the side with two characters is the mint mark identifier. The last period for empire cast coinage seems to be around about 1875-1908 After this period Chinese coins seem to be milled coinage. I have four cash in my collection three I think I Have identified as eighteenth century and I have one I am still trying to find out about.
 There is a search feature on the numista catalogue that allows you to type in a Chinese  character and will search for coins with that mark
Dave.

Apologies for the pictures. I modified the size. I will post again tonight and will read the information. Thank you all.

Hope you don't mind me jumping in with this but this is the coin I have and cannot identify. Seeing as how Xavier seems to know a lot about oriental coins I was hoping it might be identified at last.





Thanks for any help.
Dave.

Many thanks Davekane, your coin is the same as bam777's coins #1 and #7, and I've eventually identified it!
The two characters are 寛永. They mean "Kan'ei", which is a Japanese era which spanned from 1624 to 1643.
So these three "mon" coins are either Japanese KM#15, C#1.1 or C#1.2.

Btw, I don't know a lot about oriental coins, but I know a little bit of Chinese language and, as I will stay in China for at least two years, I try to learn about Chinese coinage.

Hey, Ben!

I know all about these Chinese (and Japanese) coins. I can certainly help you.

1. Kan'ei mon (C#1)
2. Chien-lung (KM#389) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces7996.html
3. Chien-lung (KM#427) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1133.html
4. Counterfeit (I don't even wish to identify)
5. Chien-lung (KM#427) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1133.html
6. Tao-kuang (your photo is really hard to identify)
7. Kan'ei mon (C#4)
8. Chia-ch'ing (KM#453) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces19759.html
9. Chia-ch'ing (KM#400) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces19926.html
10. K'ang-hsi (KM#326) This isn't on Numista yet!
11. Kuang-hsu (Y#190) The least rare of the Chinese coins https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6817.html
12. Counterfeit (or Warring states...)
13. Chien-lung (KM#420) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17924.html
14. Hsien-feng The photo is very hard to identify
15. Chien-lung (KM#420) https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17924.html

The least rare, not including the machine-struck Kuang-hsu cash, are the Chien-lung coins. They are quite common among Chinese cash. The most rare are the Japanese mon (which are worth about $1.5-3), the one from K'ang-hsi, and the Hsien-feng for sure. Most Hsien-feng coins are usually 50 or 100 cash, sometimes even 300 cash.

Davekane, the coin you uploaded is a 1 Mon from Japan. This one is much rarer than ordinary Mon coins. 寛永　通ほ. The reverse says "first" and is C#1.8.

When it comes to Chinese coins or anything oriental, send me a private message.

I bought this on e-bay and it should help a lot.

I don't mean to disappoint, Ken.

But the coin's engravings look oddly fake. I'm not saying they are, but the inscriptions don't seem right.

Reasons? The coins are the same size. The colour is too bright. The writing is too thick.

I could identify the coins for you if you want though. And I hope Ben makes good use of that list. It took me a little while!

I thank all of the people that have replied. Kenneth, I should have sent you a PM and I am sorry I didn't.
I am grateful to you.
I will list the one that hasn't been listed yet...and I apologise to you all further for the poor pictures. I sacrificed quality images for smaller ones and thus f'ed them up.

I won't do that again.

I only bought the lot for £2...so not bad.

2pounds thats not that bad  its a good thing you didnt pay any more then that !!!

Verweis : james wolfe2pounds thats not that bad  its a good thing you didnt pay any more then that !!!

I can agree!

The coin with Hsien-feng is pretty uncommon. If there was a Korean Mun, you would be pretty lucky!

Thanks for the non-photo comment, by the way.

A rather interesting thing about these cash coins are that they are by no means fixed throughout time. The economy of the times play a big part in the specifications of the currency. For example, the coins of the Yung-cheng Emperor are much larger than the coins of the Hsüan-t'ung Emperor, due to the troubled times Hsüan-t'ung ruled over. Therefore, when the coins of different emperors are of the same size, beware!

Not sure if this applies for Korean/Vietnamese/Japanese cash coins.

Verweis : fliegendehollanderA rather interesting thing about these cash coins are that they are by no means fixed throughout time.

Not sure if this applies for Korean/Vietnamese/Japanese cash coins.

Hey,

Uhh I guess. Coins from the Warring States (-300's) are typically smaller with the holes larger. They also have fixed values, such as 四通寶 (4 Cash).

In the late 1800's, you often see machine-struck Cantonese (Kwang-tung) cash because the British had ports in the province. In fact, I have three of them. Note the off-struck hole. Canton also issued round holes instead of square holes.

As for Japanese mon, they are usually smaller, but the holes are much larger, except the large 45mm 100 Mon. Korean mun range over the years. Usually they have a larger rim unlike other cash coins, and there are thousands of reverse varieties. In the 1800's Korea issued silver mon with enamel colouring in the centre instead of a hole. Vietnam used to issue round holes in the 1300's and their coins have emperor names similar to those of Chinese. In the 1860's you see a change from moulded cast coinage to machine-struck cash and Sapeques. The French also holed their Centime coinage for the Vietnamese who were familiar with the holes.

I have encountered many fake Chinese coins. Questions?

Verweis : ken6528I bought this on e-bay and it should help a lot.

As the other collector wrote, these are too uniform in size and clarity. My guess is that they are nice looking copies which are fairly good guides to recognizing the genuine thing when you come across it.
Regretfully, the Chinese either do not laws against counterfeiting, or if they do, they don't seem to enforce them. Currently in China, many coins and banknotes, too, are being copied and passed off for genuine. A couple of easy clues to some counterfeits, especially of those coins which are silver, is to check for the orientation, and to check for magnetism.
BB

I don't think magnetism's the problem,

I think it's telling that the obverse matches the reverse. Take this coin for example.

The obverse (right photo) says Chekiang. Tell me if the obverse says the same thing in English.

Verweis : SmartOneKgI don't think magnetism's the problem,

I think it's telling that the obverse matches the reverse. Take this coin for example.

The obverse (right photo) says Chekiang. Tell me if the obverse says the same thing in English.

Magnetism is a problem, as about a month or so ago, I knowingly bought a collection of "Made in China" early copies of US Dollars and Trade Dollars which were excellent counterfeits. They were heavily silver-plated, and had been passed onto a foreign born local merchant who was all too in a hurry to capitalize on the silver content. Had he simply tried them with a magnet, he would have been able to save a large amount of money. When he called me to advise, I saw too many beautiful coins to believe that it was true, then upon closer scrutiny, found the orientation being wrong, informed him that they were the most beautiful fakes I'd ever seen. When we tried the magnetism test, they also failed.

So my conclusion is that when determining whether a coin is genuine, that every reasonable means possible should be used: Orientation, Magnetism, Weight, Diameter, Thickness, Metallic Consistency, and, yes, even having the information on the obverse to agree with that of the reverse. The entire battery of tests need not always be applied, simply as once a coin fails one test it probably is not genuine, but by using another test ... the initial test is thereby verified.

China is the main source of fakery today: Numismatic Material ... and everything else. As China is in the infancy of it's successful venture into Capitalism, this is to be expected. As they become even more successful and it becomes more the norm, as we have passed laws to protect our public from fakery, they will surely do the same. However, it will not happen any time soon. Therefore we collectors must verify for authenticity.
BB