butterfly-crane ancient chinese coins [gelöst]

butterfly-crane ancient chinese coins? which province? or these coins represent fantasy coins?
copper coin (all coins 29.4 mm in diameter, Cu and bronze coins 12.1g, and the brass coin 11.4g)


brass coin


bronze coin

I don't know what they are but they are clearly modern machine made, not ancient. Probably some kind of fantasy tokens.

Definitely a fantasy token.

OK, thanks a lot

what is about this one , Kwantung 1 cent ? are they as well fantasy coins-tokens?

1 cent copper (29.2 mm and 10.2 g)


1 cent copper (29.4 mm and 12.1 g)


1 cent brass (28.7 mm and 8.8 g)

Verweis : "cro321"​I don't know what they are but they are clearly modern machine made, not ancient. Probably some kind of fantasy tokens.

​ I agree with that, including for those extra three.

It is said that all these fantasy coins were produced in the 1980s. So, they will be ancient only in 50 years! It is a joke.

what is about this one, Hong-Kong bronze coin 1924 1 cent? Is it a fantasy coin?

Verweis : "vvvzzz"​what is about this one , Kwantung 1 cent ? are they as well fantasy coins-tokens?
​
​1 cent copper (29.2 mm and 10.2 g)
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​1 cent copper (29.4 mm and 12.1 g)
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​1 cent brass (28.7 mm and 8.8 g)
​

​All fake. Republic coins don't use Manchu Script, and please pay attention to "1".

It is said that the Manchu symbols mean the name of the master who has designed the coin.
Also, Manchu symbols are present on this 1924 republician coin (Y#311)
https://en.ucoin.net/coin/china_republic-10-cash-1924/?tid=74884

Also, such design of the number "1" is common for such Kwang-Tung coins , see here
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces14088.html

Verweis : "vvvzzz"​It is said that the Manchu symbols mean the name of the master who has designed the coin.
​Also, Manchu symbols are present on this 1924 republician coin (Y#311)
​https://en.ucoin.net/coin/china_republic-10-cash-1924/?tid=74884
​
​Also, such design of the number "1" is common for such Kwang-Tung coins , see here
​https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces14088.html
​

​My negligence, but still, wrong design.

For Kuangtung 1 cent, note that the “1” is center-filled, which is one of the clue for common counterfeit. Legend also look not appealing.

For the Kwangtung 1 cent coin, the number “1” is also center-filled that is common for the Kwang-Tung authentic coins , see here anew
​https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces14088.html

Concerning "Legend also look not appealing.", as an european for me all Englich letters on all chinese ancient coins look like they were drawn by a 5-year child because the chinese people drow their chinese letters and therefore, they also drow their English letters. Therefore, all all Englich letters on all chinese ancient coins look not appealing for me, even strange.

Please, let me know what is written on the left from the butterfly on the butterfly side of the coins? Please, traslate in English , if it is possible, if the chinese letters are not too old!!!

Regarding the Hong-Kong coin, you can find it here:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3798.html
This is a real coin and not a fantasy one...

Yes, thank You very much, the Hong-Kong coin is actually real coin. I have also 1 cent 1877 but I still clean this coin already during one year.

Please, let me know what is written on the left from the butterfly on the butterfly side of the coins? Please, traslate in English , if it is possible, if the chinese letters are not too old!!!

Good luck mate

Thank You very much for this 4 japanese yen chinese coin.
Also, I have one chinese coin Kwangtung that was shiped to me instead of the other chinese coin by one crazy seller from China: it looks like a cast bronze coin (30mm and 11g) probably, it is an imitation of a cast coin

It's Renminbi (CNY), not Japanese yen.

Don't expect any coins shipping from China is genuine, Over 95% of online listings (China seller) are selling fake coins

The coin shown below is also one cast coin (see in the third scan), copper, 10 cash An-Hui, 1902-1906, 35mm and 15.4g

This Kwangtung 2 cents bronze coin 1918 (30.1 mm and 10.8g) acctually relates to an ancient chinese cast coinage



This is the brass mint coin 2 cents 1918 Kwangtung, 29.1 mm and 8.2g



and this one looks like a modern restruck, copper, Kwangtung 2 cents 1918 (28.6mm , 9.2g)

what is about the authemticity of these three large coins, probably , two of them relate to a deep province cast coinage, and the third one is a mint coin (edge is plain for all)

1) copper cast coin, 2 cents Kwangtung, 1918 (15.2g and 34mm, probably, it is even a red brass coin)


2) brass cast coin, 2 cents Kwangtung, 1918 (19g and 35.3mm)


1) copper mint coin, 2 cents Kwangtung, 1918 (13.1g and 33.4mm)

Verweis : "vvvzzz"​what is about the authemticity of these three large coins, probably , two of them relate to a deep province cast coinage, and the third one is a mint coin (edge is plain for all)

​Kwangtung was the first Chinese province to introduce mint machines during the ending years of the 19th Century, and then followed by other provinces. After that China stopped issuing cast coins except some traditional cashes with square hole. So I'm afraid all cast common issued cents are not genuine.

Indeed, since 1850s up to 1950 in China both mint and cast coinage was produced but since 1950s only mint coinage was issued. This depends on the place of issue, I mean that provincial coinage (provinces and cities) was mostly cast but general issues and issues in some provinces were mint. I have found that each of cast coinage manufactures in China were produced several billions of 10 cash coins annually!!! China was always monetize , even 2,000 years ago!!!

If I rightly understood from the discussions that the butterfly-crane coins are fake because they are mint coins but the cast coins I have shown here are also fake because they are cast coins!? So, all are happy that I have to have only fake chinese coins!!!

Verweis : "vvvzzz"​If I rightly understood from the discussions that the butterfly-crane coins are fake because they are mint coins but the cast coins I have shown here are also fake because they are cast coins!? So, all are happy that I have to have only fake chinese coins!!!

​Maybe it is a bit insulting but none of your posted Chinese coins is genuine.
At the end of the 19th Century as foreign silver dollars(especially Mexico 8 reales) were quite well accepted the Chinese government decided to issue its own and the first mint was founded in Kwangtung, this one was the first mint coin of China (don't try to find one unless you do want to spend as much as a house). After then smaller denomination coins were introduced by the same mint, including copper cent coins. These coins were so successful that local mints were opened all over the country. Then the history of cast coinage in China, which had lasted over 2000 years, ended.
So almost all modern Chinese coins were minted, with the exception of some private and emergency issues.
The Chinese inscription on your butterfly coin means "blue butterfly flies away and comes back". It's a fantasy token.
And for your Kwangtung 2 cents, an NGC MS61 was sold for US$ 5k in 2011.

Thank you very much for your trnslation of the Chinese inscription on the butterfly coin.
What is about this coin, is it fake? Kwangtung, 1 cash, 1889, bronze, 30 mm, 10.7g


What is about my Hong-Kong coin shown above, is it fake as well?

Verweis : "vvvzzz"​Thank you very much for your trnslation of the Chinese inscription on the butterfly coin.
​What is about this coin, is it fake? Kwangtung, 1 cash, 1889, bronze, 30 mm, 10.7g
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​What is about my Hong-Kong coin shown above, is it fake as well?

​For reference
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17768.html
You get the idea.

And the details of your Hong Kong KGV cent are too weak for British coinage.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3798.html

It's very sad but that's the current situation of modern Chinese coin collecting. If you are not familiar with them, just avoid dealers you're not sure, or buy slabbed coins happily with a bit more $$.

Indeed, I buy such unique chinese coins (that are fake in Your opinion) just from $1,000,000,000,000 because any authentic chinese ancient coins are too cheap to buy!!!

You are right. Some of the modern Chinese coins from late 19th Century to 1949 got dirt cheap these years. I bid for this one with AU55 grading by NGC at an auction in Tokyo earlier this year. And it was sold for just twice as much as my highest bid without buyer's fee.
However, you can get many really ancient Chinese copper coins for 2 or less digits of $. For example the Wu zhu coins are relative common in spite of their 2000 years history. You just need to find a good dealer.

Please, show the right Wu Zhu coin picture because Your picture is for 7 mase and 2 candareend.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces86179.html
Apologize for my mistake.